St. Joseph's

[NDGradXUFan]

1- Why would you phrase your initial comment that you wanted certain Catholic colleges to join ND in a conference? Kind of ND centric.
2- regarding money one reason the BE FB conference failed is because ND refused to place its FB team in the BE. Why was that? MONEY. One could argue that had ND been willing to fully join the BE and had ND not chosen to move to the ACC things might have been very different with the conference outcome.

1 - Yes. I fully acknowledge that I'm an ND homer.
2 - I don't deny that, but I would never have wanted ND to put its football program in the Big East. That would have been a program killer. Let's face it, compared to every other BCS conference, when it comes to football, the Big East is small potatoes.

[NDGradXUFan]

There are different ways to beat someone, you could beat someone by being on a level playing field and just be better than them, or you could deny them the level playing field and make it easier on yourself, ie: better conference giving you better recruiting. You can also refuse to play and just say you are better. . .

I say this as conference realignment goes on. Sure, I am not happy there wasn't an announcement regarding UD (sheesh, just say if you're going to 12 and who they are so we can STOP all the rumors.) Some teams are good about at least playing, Villanova, Seton Hall and Pitt each recently gave UD a home and home series which were split, while Louisville gave UD a home and nuetral series both won by UD. I use UD, because its what I know. Whereas Notre Who refuses to play UD, while most of their fans I know would love to see it restarted. (One actually suggested UD make the jump from non-scholarship FCS to full FBS football and work to join the ACC, and he was serious. He didn't understand Title IX.)

Long story short, pick who you want for your conference, but please don't say we need to keep ( ) out so we keep/get a recruiting advantage, it makes you look small time, which you are not.

(Groan) Am I being forced to admit that I agree with a UD fan for once? Yeah, ND has refused to schedule Dayton and Xavier for a long time ... since the mid 70s if my memory serves me correctly. My father often brags about having seen Austin Carr play in Dayton way back when ... and it has always made me jealous that I've never been able to see consistent matchups between X or UD versus ND (X has played ND 3 times in recent memory, but all 3 times in the postseason). When it comes to basketball, ND has gone to great lengths to create the perception that they're the premiere Catholic basketball school in the midwest, which has meant excluding pretty much everyone except for DePaul and Marquette before they joined the Big East (ending those local rivalries would have generated too much outcry). Slightly further away and with less basketball prowess (at least at the time) Dayton and Xavier were expendable. This is precisely why I've dreamed of seeing them in the same conference.

[muskienick]

Sure, I am not happy there wasn't an announcement regarding UD (sheesh, just say if you're going to 12 and who they are so we can STOP all the rumors.)

The selection of Butler, Creighton, and Xavier was very cut and dried. Those choices were proven commodities. The same isn't true for the others in the queue waiting for a decision.

SLU has done well the past two years in the A-10 but was pretty lackluster prior to that. The other main question on the Billikens is "Can Jim Crews or his successor build on the work of Rick Majerus or will the program slide back to mediocrity after Rick's players graduate?"

UD hasn't distinguished itself much by generally finishing in the middle of the pack in the A-10 (or worse) and seldom going to the NCAA Tourney and, when they do go, making few waves. It would represent the smallest metro and media market in the Conference and overlap somewhat with Xavier's media market (Dayton TV program listings are included in the Cincinnati daily newspaper)!

Richmond's NCAA Tourney pedigree is a bit sketchy but the Spiders do share the private school tag that some seem to hold dear to their hearts. They also hail from a better media market and metro area than UD. And they would help to maintain a geographical balance in the Big East if it were to add two teams in the future.

VCU has the edge on the other three contenders in almost every aspect except for the fact that it is a public university. I see no problem with that but others seem to consider it some sort of an impediment. Even so, there are public institutions in every great athletic conference in the nation. Why should VCU's status as "public" eliminate its consideration? It's had great coaches over the last 10-15 years, frequent trips to the NCAA Tourney, more success in the NCAA Tourney than the other three, and they have always done well in their conference play even in their first year in the A-10. Isn't the main goal of the Big East to be the elite college basketball-centric conference in the nation?

UD still has a lot to prove if it is to receive an invitation to join the Big East in the next year or three.

[SixTwentySix]

And I never said the recruiting was confined to Philly. Every recruit you just named, aside from Kittles, was no more than a 2 hour drive away.

That is patently false. I live in DC and it is, on a good day, at least 3 1/2 hours to Philadelphia.

Google "Washington DC to Philly"... 2.5 hours if you're hitting the speed limit. Yes, I'm from Philly and it has never taken me over 2:15 to get there. Please don't claim my statements are false, when they're not. 3.5 hours if you're driving a golf cart maybe.

[NDGradXUFan]

Google "Washington DC to Philly"... 2.5 hours if you're hitting the speed limit. Yes, I'm from Philly and it has never taken me over 2:15 to get there. Please don't claim my statements are false, when they're not. 3.5 hours if you're driving a golf cart maybe.

Unless you're driving in the middle of the night or taking the Acela, there is no way you can get down the 95-corridor to DC in anything less than 3 1/2 hours. And to prove my point, here is some objective proof - http://www.mapquest.com/#ffae4c6a67a08ac8f83c78d5. 155 miles in 2.5 hours? Sure, if you drive 80+ mph in NO traffic, through traffic cameras, and with police cruisers all over the place. Again, I stand by my point - 3 1/2 hours, no question.

[SixTwentySix]

There are different ways to beat someone, you could beat someone by being on a level playing field and just be better than them, or you could deny them the level playing field and make it easier on yourself, ie: better conference giving you better recruiting. You can also refuse to play and just say you are better. . .

I say this as conference realignment goes on. Sure, I am not happy there wasn't an announcement regarding UD (sheesh, just say if you're going to 12 and who they are so we can STOP all the rumors.) Some teams are good about at least playing, Villanova, Seton Hall and Pitt each recently gave UD a home and home series which were split, while Louisville gave UD a home and nuetral series both won by UD. I use UD, because its what I know. Whereas Notre Who refuses to play UD, while most of their fans I know would love to see it restarted. (One actually suggested UD make the jump from non-scholarship FCS to full FBS football and work to join the ACC, and he was serious. He didn't understand Title IX.)

Long story short, pick who you want for your conference, but please don't say we need to keep ( ) out so we keep/get a recruiting advantage, it makes you look small time, which you are not.

I agree with this, and you make extremely valid points. What I'm saying is that the conference won't want to add St Joes, not just Nova. It has nothing to do with being small time, it has to do with strengthening the conference and being the sole team in your city. That goes for every team. They want this conference to be strong, balanced, and successful from the start. Giving each time the opportunity to represent the Big East in their own city is a big part of that.

Also, I may be missing something with the ND, UD, playing each other and beating each other on the court thing. Confused where you were going with that. Nova plays St Joes every single year, as they do with the rest of the Big 5. The Rivarly started in 1921 and is known as the Holy War. It's big time in Philly. If I'm misunderstanding you, apologies.

[mike]

I want to correct a misstatement of fact set forth above. A poster said that Omaha's metropolitan area population was 415,000. That figure would be for the City of Omaha. The Omaha metropolitan area is the smallest in the new Big East but, according to the US Census Bureau, that metro area had 885,000 in 2012.

[sandw04]

Besides Nova not wanting recruiting competition from St. Joe's, there is also the matter of does Fox want to sponsor two Big East teams in the Philly TV market?

[ljay]

I understand that considerations go beyond television markets, but if they mattered at all, you'd think Creighton would be immediately excluded. Yes, they have good basketball chops in recent memory, but historically they've never been much of a factor. And again, let me say this - Omaha, Nebraska. Let's look at another program which, arguably, has as much basketball pedigree (at least historically) as Creighton - Detroit Mercy. The Titans were good in the 70s, and had a few tourney upsets in the 90s, and here's the kicker - the population of the Detroit metro area is 5.2 million. Think about that for a second; ruminate on that number - 5.2 million people, the 12th largest city in America. Are there greater television marketing dollars to be had in Omaha?

I love the Bluejays program, don't get me wrong. They have a rabid fan base and are routinely in the top-20 in attendance nationwide (probably because there's nothing else to do in Omaha ... much like Dayton). I also don't have any particular interest in Detroit's basketball program ... but maybe I would if the profile of the league could elevate their program and provide a geographic rival to Xavier. I think it's safe to say that from Providence to Omaha, there would be more fan interest across the board in any Creighton match up than that of Detroit, but that's because people have short-term memories and are more familiar with the Bluejays' program.

Nice douchey comments, I guess coming from a Domer I'm not surprised.

Come on out to Omaha to see if there is anything else to do here, I think you would be surprised. What you and many fail to understand is that Nebraska and Iowa are COLLEGE SPORTS JUNKIE areas of the country. This may be hard to comprehend for those in cities with the NBA and all but few out here gives two sh*ts about the NBA and most pro sports. I can't remember where I saw it but the number of eyes on college events from this area is very, very high. Detriot may have lots of eyes but how many of them are trained on Detroit-Mercy and college sports in general? How about all big markets, how much interest do local colleges garner? I don't know the answers but Creighton didn't get picked without a great deal of vetting and with the geographical outlier status being a big minus there are a number of college presidents who strongly disagree with your assessment if they looked beyond the geography and chose CU.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Long time Nova fan here and let me just say that there is ZERO, None, Zilch, NADA chance that St. Joe's would ever get an invite to the BE as currently made up. Why?

1). 8 Miles down the road from Nova. This conference needs to spread out, it doesn't need concentration in one market. Quick question, what makes more sense to double up in a large, but not huge, market or expand into new markets like St. Louis, Richmond, or anywhere else? This is why if Cinn. ever came crawling back begging for admission into this league I would say, "No thanks. We've already got a great program in Southern Ohio." There is something to be said about supporting the teams already in the conference. I would never want to consider George Washington, or Rhode Island or Fordham for the same reason even if they became the next Butler or VCU in terms of tourney success. This is the biggest reason I think Dayton is fighting an uphill battle. If it is a good rivalry, let it continue outside the conference. Nova battles St. Joe's, La Salle and Temple every year and still managed to build great rivalries with GTwn and St. Johns. If they are close geographically let's support the regional team already in the conference instead of having them share their brand with someone down the street. This isn't college hoops welfare. Nova has committed to building a great hoops brand which has helped garner the TV money that all 10-12 teams will enjoy. We are now a conglomerate brand--we should support each other school every opportunity we get, and shy away from expansion that may weaken that brand.

2). Fox. Why would they want 2 teams in the same market especially when Nova is the name brand in that market? Makes no sense.

3). Facilities. St. Joe's(PA) has a small arena and a feeble Alum following. Nova can move to the Wells Fargo Center and sell it out. St. Joe's could not. They do not match the rest of the conference in commitment to athletics. They would become Seton Hall Jr.

4). State of the Program. They are falling apart. They go 6 deep this year, and are losing a couple guys to graduation. They are calling for their coach's head b/c they just lost a home NIT game in a season in which they were picked to win the A-10. They are heading in an opposite direction of a team like St. Louis. No thanks. I can see St. Joe's having a couple tough years in a row. And we need our first 4-5 years to be an overwhelming success.

Lastly in terms of the talk of Big East teams, notably ND, choosing not to do home and homes with teams like Dayton... What I think the Butler's and the Xaviers and especially the Creightons will learn is that when you end up with a brutal league conference schedule, you don't always have to load up your non-conference with all tough matchups. I've seen it enough with Big 5 games that these other teams treat the matchup like their Super Bowl. It's tough to put your team through a grinder before your league even starts. Sometimes you need games that you can play a bunch of people and do some different things so you can find out where you are. When ND has to play L'ville, Gtwn, Nova, Pitt and Syr in successive games, perhaps Mike Brey just thinks playing Chicago State at home instead of traveling to Dayton, is better for his team. It's not ND's responsibility to give UD a shot at anything, let alone provide them with "a level playing field."