Katz: C7 looking to add Richmond?

[yorost]

Gonzaga by JTIII, and I think elsewhere. Not indications that they will be invited, though.

I'm not so sure the A10 is better than the BE7, flat. Computer numbers for DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's in the past 10 years years put them in as average to above average A10 teams. The A10 has more good teams at the top, but it's also twice the size. We have a better bottom than you and that counts for something. They often look bad because of the Big East, but they're not bad programs. Even DePaul does ok in OOC and can put up a fight in conference play. Adding top A10 teams will improve the BE7, definitely. To solidify the conference and make the money we need A10 teams.

[yorost]

Not sure what I'll find, but here's KenPom for A10 vs BE7 this season. This seems like a down season for the BE7 and a strong year for the A10.

21 Virginia Commonwealth A10 18-5 .8900
22 Marquette BE 16-5 .8824
25 Georgetown BE 16-4 .8741
38 Butler A10 19-4 .8522
39 St. Louis A10 17-5 .8513
55 La Salle A10 15-6 .8152
61 Providence BE 12-11 .7960
63 Villanova BE 14-9 .7937
71 Dayton A10 13-9 .7616
77 Temple A10 15-7 .7472
83 Saint Joseph's A10 13-8 .7359
86 George Washington A10 11-10 .7173
90 Richmond A10 14-9 .7081
92 Xavier A10 12-9 .7022
97 St. John's BE 15-8 .6956
99 Massachusetts A10 15-6 .6844
103 Seton Hall BE 13-10 .6694
119 St. Bonaventure A10 10-11 .6245
120 Charlotte A10 17-5 .6230
160 DePaul BE 10-12 .5220
162 Rhode Island A10 6-15 .5180
229 Duquesne A10 7-15 .3214
236 Fordham A10 6-17 .3003

BE7: .7476
A10: .6783

Those bottom two are killer, remove those 2...

A10(-2): .7307

...bottom 3...

A10(-3): .7471

What about the BE7 without their top 2?

BE7(w/o Marq and George): .6953

Still above the A10.

edit
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I made this for my own curiosity, but it's a visual comparison of the A10 and BE7 on today's KenPom. I weighted the teams of each group for a proportional comparison.

[Bluejay]

I can guarantee you that the weight being afforded the private vs. public question on this and other message boards reflects parochial fan concerns and NOT the business decisions driving this process.

How can you possibly make that guarantee? How do you know what they are and are not considering? What would your little guarantee consist of anyway?

Let's be frank. Despite your often overly rude protestations to the contrary, you have no idea what the powers that be are considering. Just because you want to believe something, does not make it so.

Perhaps the BE 7, considering what they have been through, value stability. Perhaps the fact that they have served together on boards or lived with the some of their private school peers in Jesuit residences, makes them more trusting of those people. Maybe not having to worry about the intercession of any state governmental agency is appealing. Maybe the stealth with which moves can be made with other private institutions is valued. You have no clue what these schools feel is important. For you to "guarantee" that you do, is preposterous unless you have had private conversations with them.

Your links to VCU have completely destroyed your ability to look at anything objectively.

[thegalen]

I can guarantee you that the weight being afforded the private vs. public question on this and other message boards reflects parochial fan concerns and NOT the business decisions driving this process.

How can you possibly make that guarantee? How do you know what they are and are not considering? What would your little guarantee consist of anyway?

Let's be frank. Despite your often overly rude protestations to the contrary, you have no idea what the powers that be are considering. Just because you want to believe something, does not make it so.

Perhaps the BE 7, considering what they have been through, value stability. Perhaps the fact that they have served together on boards or lived with the some of their private school peers in Jesuit residences, makes them more trusting of those people. Maybe not having to worry about the intercession of any state governmental agency is appealing. Maybe the stealth with which moves can be made with other private institutions is valued. You have no clue what these schools feel is important. For you to "guarantee" that you do, is preposterous unless you have had private conversations with them.

Your links to VCU have completely destroyed your ability to look at anything objectively.

The Jesuit Club for Academics and the Art of Stealth sounds kind of awesome actually. FS1's gonna make them take a serious haircut on that TV deal, though...

[thegalen]

Gonzaga by JTIII, and I think elsewhere. Not indications that they will be invited, though.

I'm not so sure the A10 is better than the BE7, flat. Computer numbers for DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's in the past 10 years years put them in as average to above average A10 teams. The A10 has more good teams at the top, but it's also twice the size. We have a better bottom than you and that counts for something. They often look bad because of the Big East, but they're not bad programs. Even DePaul does ok in OOC and can put up a fight in conference play. Adding top A10 teams will improve the BE7, definitely. To solidify the conference and make the money we need A10 teams.

All very true, but when I said "honestly no better than the A10" I meant considered a tweener conference that will routinely jockey with the A10, MVC et al for best of the rest.

[yorost]

The BE7 only has two Jesuit universities, Georgetown and Marquette. I don't think the Jesuit connections that important outside of Georgetown being the clear cut leader.

[yorost]

Gonzaga by JTIII, and I think elsewhere. Not indications that they will be invited, though.

I'm not so sure the A10 is better than the BE7, flat. Computer numbers for DePaul, Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's in the past 10 years years put them in as average to above average A10 teams. The A10 has more good teams at the top, but it's also twice the size. We have a better bottom than you and that counts for something. They often look bad because of the Big East, but they're not bad programs. Even DePaul does ok in OOC and can put up a fight in conference play. Adding top A10 teams will improve the BE7, definitely. To solidify the conference and make the money we need A10 teams.

All very true, but when I said "honestly no better than the A10" I meant considered a tweener conference that will routinely jockey with the A10, MVC et al for best of the rest.

Maybe, a few different computer numbers I've seen suggest otherwise. The BE left behind is poised to fall to a tweener, but the BE7 numbers indicate a start at low major. Tough to say what will happen, but they're currently a clear step above the conferences you mention, plus they'll be adding strong teams from those conferences. If they end up a tweener it will be a step back from their current situation.

Today's Sagarin (central mean scores):

1 BIG TEN 84.99
2 BIG EAST 83.29
3 BIG 12 82.32
4 ATLANTIC COAST 81.71
- BE7 80.90
5 MOUNTAIN WEST 80.66
6 PAC-12 80.63
7 SOUTHEASTERN 79.75
8 ATLANTIC 10 78.80
9 MISSOURI VALLEY = 76.85

[Jet915]

Katz softens on Richmond a little and gives the Jays some love.

1. The departing Big East 7 are still negotiating their exit from the Big East and are far from finalizing a date to withdraw (although the exit is likely for the fall of 2014). The league still needs to lock in on a television partner (Fox, according to sources, the leader in the clubhouse) and a commissioner. But a number of sources have made valid points for additional schools the Big East 7 will go after, with the consensus being Butler and Xavier to get to nine. The 10th spot has interesting candidates, and while I have heard strong Richmond arguments for that spot, the Spiders may end up being more of an 11th or 12th member if the league decides to go that far. There is a definitely a push in one key corner of the seven to add Creighton because of the Bluejays passion for hoops, their facilities and following. I continue to hear conflicting opinions about whether or not distance matters in this new league. What isn't negotiable is the 7 want/need the schools to be all in for basketball. If that's the case then considering Gonzaga isn't out. This league has to be smart about its moves, and if Creighton is in the mix it would be a wise choice.

[jimijon]

all i want for Valentines day is ND ZAGS and X, and we just might be the perennial number 1 rpi hoops conference.
Just wishful thinking fellows. no need for all you junior g men to tell me why it wont happen.

[yorost]

He's actually right, there are legal differences between an all private conference and one with public schools. I believe one is the Freedom of Information Act. An all private league basically is just that, private, and not subject to legally having to disclose information such as spending. Once you add a single public school the entire conference becomes subject to this.

I haven't researched this, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. If anyone has any further information on this please feel free to correct me. I know Ivy League follows some of these same guidelines though for being all private. I'm sure you can find the information somewhere online.

The real question is, are these differences significant enough to matter? And even if they are do the C7, who have always been part of public conference Big East anyway, sacrifice a public team for a few legal benefits?

I have another question regarding this topic. Marquette's dental school is or has been publicly funded by the State of Wisconsin. The dental complex follows guidelines the rest of the university does not because of it. Does that prevent the conference from getting any of these benefits for being private?