Katz: C7 looking to add Richmond?

[thegalen]

He's actually right, there are legal differences between an all private conference and one with public schools. I believe one is the Freedom of Information Act. An all private league basically is just that, private, and not subject to legally having to disclose information such as spending. Once you add a single public school the entire conference becomes subject to this.

I haven't researched this, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. If anyone has any further information on this please feel free to correct me. I know Ivy League follows some of these same guidelines though for being all private. I'm sure you can find the information somewhere online.

The real question is, are these differences significant enough to matter? And even if they are do the C7, who have always been part of public conference Big East anyway, sacrifice a public team for a few legal benefits?

All schools have to disclose spending due to Title IX:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

The issue is with FOIA. However, FOIA has different thresholds in different states. In VA, for instance, business confidential information regarding any kind of contract negotiations or any other sensitive communications that would materially affect ongoing/unfinished market action can be withheld. More importantly, FOIA is only a thorn in the side of people who don't understand it. How often did the Big East get burned by FOIA from a public? Not often. They did recently by USF, but that's because they're a new entrant rookie and/or Aresco wanted the documents out. How do you prevent something from being FOIA'd? Don't put it in an email!

[Natty]

You pretty much said that Georgetown doesn't mind playing institutions like UCONN, Louisville, Pitt and West Virginia so why would they mind play VCU. Yes, they are all public institutions, you forget the fact the UCONN, Louisville and Pitt are HUGE basketball programs with great histories whereas VCU is no where close to their stature.

"Pretty much" my ass. I said what I said. The fact that you are too dumb to comprehend my post is on you.

Let me spell it out for you...

Georgetown applications were at an all-time high for the class of 2016, and that's after the Big East diluted itself with more giant public schools like Houston and UCF, and AFTER some of the schools you quoted me on had already announced plans to join other conferences. POINT BEING, athletic affiliation didn't effect the quality of student.

[xman]

You pretty much said that Georgetown doesn't mind playing institutions like UCONN, Louisville, Pitt and West Virginia so why would they mind play VCU. Yes, they are all public institutions, you forget the fact the UCONN, Louisville and Pitt are HUGE basketball programs with great histories whereas VCU is no where close to their stature.

"Pretty much" my ass. I said what I said. The fact that you are too dumb to comprehend my post is on you.

Let me spell it out for you...

Georgetown applications were at an all-time high for the class of 2016, and that's after the Big East diluted itself with more giant public schools like Houston and UCF, and AFTER some of the schools you quoted me on had already announced plans to join other conferences. POINT BEING, athletic affiliation didn't effect the quality of student.

Geez- Chill out. Athletic performance does impact the number of applications a school sees. Didn't Butler and VCU have huge spikes after the Final Four runs?

[Natty]

You pretty much said that Georgetown doesn't mind playing institutions like UCONN, Louisville, Pitt and West Virginia so why would they mind play VCU. Yes, they are all public institutions, you forget the fact the UCONN, Louisville and Pitt are HUGE basketball programs with great histories whereas VCU is no where close to their stature.

"Pretty much" my ass. I said what I said. The fact that you are too dumb to comprehend my post is on you.

Let me spell it out for you...

Georgetown applications were at an all-time high for the class of 2016, and that's after the Big East diluted itself with more giant public schools like Houston and UCF, and AFTER some of the schools you quoted me on had already announced plans to join other conferences. POINT BEING, athletic affiliation didn't effect the quality of student.

Geez- Chill out. Athletic performance does impact the number of applications a school sees. Didn't Butler and VCU have huge spikes after the Final Four runs?

Can't speak for Butler but I know VCU's applications spiked after their Final 4 run. My point was clear though....being a private school playing against public schools in sports doesn't effect the quality of students you get applying to your institution, and Jet915 was trying to mischaracterize what I said.

[Jet915]

Sorry, I guess we can agree to disagree. The fact you used public schools like UCONN, Louisville, Pitt and West Virginia to make your point is why I think it does matter. Doing well in sports against top notch competition does affect admission rates. If Georgetown starting playing public schools like Stony Brook, Norfolk State and the like, you don't think that will affect the type of students they attract? Btw, seriously, chill out. Name calling is pretty petty and pathetic. Sorry I got under your skin.

[Bluejay]

All schools have to disclose spending due to Title IX:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

That reporting though allows for several loopholes. Schools can pool expenses or chose to report them under other categories in order to conceal specifics. I wouldn't put to much stock into the accuracy and comparability of those figures from one institution to another.

There are a whole litany of other issues outside the legal arena when you have one public school in a conference where all of the others are private schools. The culture is obviously going to be significantly different, as is the mission and academic and admission standards. Perhaps not initially, but at some point these differences will present problems and could create instability.

There is an inherent long term advantage to have a conference made up of like-minded, culturally similar schools with the same mission.

[Bostonspider]

To give a little background on the University of Richmond

The University of Richmond is located on a beautiful 350 acre campus on the western edge of the city of Richmond, just north of the James River. The University has approximately 3,000 undergraduate students, 94% who live on campus. The school is currently ranked 28th in the latest USNWR rankings of National Liberal Arts Colleges. This past year, Richmond had over 10,000 applicants for 750 spots and had an admit rate of around 30%. For its size, Richmond is one of the largest endowed schools with a $1.95B endowment as of this January. Richmond also has a separate $150 Million dollar Athletic Department Endowment. Richmond is currently planning a $25 to $30 Million dollar renovation of the Robins Center, UR's on campus arena. Although built over 40 years ago, the 9.071 seat arena looks in great shape, and has been consistently renovated in the athletic / team levels. This renovation is to upgrade the fan experience, with more lower level courside seating, video boards, better lights and sound system, luxury boxes and improved concessions. The renovation is to proceed in two phases over the next two off seasons. Richmond is also planning on converting the historic gymnasium, Millhiser, into a state of the art practice facility for the men's and women's basketball teams, and has hired HKS to design it. This gym is attached to the Robin Center currently. Richmond has had consistent if not completely sustained success in men's basketball over the last 30 years, including 9 tourney trips and 2 sweet sixteens, and going to the tournament under 4 different coaches, including the last three. UR was able to survive "program killer" Jerry Wainright, though it took Coach Mooney a few years to get the program back on its feet after Depaul miraculously relieved Richmond of Wainright. UR has a very strong athletic program, including an FCS national title in football, and numerous strong programs that have led to top 1, 2 or 3 finishes in the the A10 Commisioner's Cup every year over the last 10. Richmond is adding varsity men's lacrosse, which with Marquette's new program would allow the conference to keep its autobid to the NCAA Lax Tourney.

The Robins Center


The new Robins Stadium (beautiful but small, shows we have no plans above FCS Football)


Football Stadium with Robins Center and Millhiser Gym in background.


And a couple of pictures of campus so you can get a feel for UR.

[yorost]

You pretty much said that Georgetown doesn't mind playing institutions like UCONN, Louisville, Pitt and West Virginia so why would they mind play VCU. Yes, they are all public institutions, you forget the fact the UCONN, Louisville and Pitt are HUGE basketball programs with great histories whereas VCU is no where close to their stature.

"Pretty much" my ass. I said what I said. The fact that you are too dumb to comprehend my post is on you.

Let me spell it out for you...

Georgetown applications were at an all-time high for the class of 2016, and that's after the Big East diluted itself with more giant public schools like Houston and UCF, and AFTER some of the schools you quoted me on had already announced plans to join other conferences. POINT BEING, athletic affiliation didn't effect the quality of student.

Geez- Chill out. Athletic performance does impact the number of applications a school sees. Didn't Butler and VCU have huge spikes after the Final Four runs?

Marquette sure did. If I recall that next class or two was a nice jump in quality and number of applicants. The school was trending up at the time, though. I think every year I was there they were getting a record number of applicants and record averages on incoming test score, but I think they said that next set of applicants represented an unexpected jump.. It also represented a nice influx of donations. If I recall, they were saying that the Final Four run completed a big project or two in donations in only the few days after they won their Elite 8 game.

He's actually right...

Not meaning to imply he was wrong, I just didn't know there were any advantages. Still haven't heard a whole bevy of advantages, though. I still can't see being public as a deal breaker rather than a tie breaker. If VCU were viewed as a Gonzaga they'd be in.

[SixTwentySix]

All schools have to disclose spending due to Title IX:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

That reporting though allows for several loopholes. Schools can pool expenses or chose to report them under other categories in order to conceal specifics. I wouldn't put to much stock into the accuracy and comparability of those figures from one institution to another.

There are a whole litany of other issues outside the legal arena when you have one public school in a conference where all of the others are private schools. The culture is obviously going to be significantly different, as is the mission and academic and admission standards. Perhaps not initially, but at some point these differences will present problems and could create instability.

There is an inherent long term advantage to have a conference made up of like-minded, culturally similar schools with the same mission.

Thanks to both of you for chiming. Like I said, I haven't researched this stuff so my post was just roughly based on things I remember reading at one point in time. In the end I think the C7 will keep it all private, it's just simpler that way. 10-12 schools with the same mindset and goals is just easier. Like Bluejay said, "long term advantage" of schools on the same path. VCU has a great program, but it's not going to happen, sorry to say.

[SixTwentySix]

He's actually right...

Not meaning to imply he was wrong, I just didn't know there were any advantages. Still haven't heard a whole bevy of advantages, though. I still can't see being public as a deal breaker rather than a tie breaker. If VCU were viewed as a Gonzaga they'd be in.

My apologies yorost, I was just supporting his claim, not saying you thought he was wrong. And I completely agree with you, if VCU was the same caliber and branding as Gonzaga, the C7 would be going with a public school. If Xavier was public, they'd be going with a public school. If any of the C7 were already public, they'd have a public school. But I think as it currently stands, there are too many private schools that are considered solid options right now to go after a public school. There's people all over the country debating VCU or Richmond with very good arguments for both. So if there's no obvious right answer, might as well go with the private school.