It's time to review Villanova

[Jasper67]

There is one thing that is still bewildering to me. They knew Moore was hurt and would miss time when the season ended. They knew Arch and his limitations. Still they did nothing in the transfer portal. Many teams in the BE made significant upgrades that paid off this year. Villanova coming off a Final Four run, with the prestige of the name, clearly could have upgraded also, but did nothing. They must have been comfortable with the team they had coming back. Neptune was handed the keys to a Ferrari. He still hasn't proven he knows how to drive.

Is Neptune the one to blame for this? The portal was open for almost 6 weeks before he was hired. Other coaches were already involved with players. He was trying to play catch up.

Did Jay know he was leaving or was it a decision he made after the season? Either way, he wasn’t in a position to be recruiting anyone off the portal and Neptune wasn’t there yet.

PG is the most difficult position to step into as a transfer because a kid has to be able to run the coach’s system. So, it’s not just a matter of talent, but how quick a learner a kid is and how readily he’s accepted by his teammates. Tough challenge.

And then there was the timing. They didn’t even know they’d be desperate for a PG until March 26, 2022 because they basically had 2 PGs top tier PGs and one of them was coming back. It was all of a sudden that this problem was thrust upon them. They had spent no time preparing for this.

It’s one thing to make upgrades as many teams did this year, but was out there specifically at PG who they should have and could have grabbed. It’s rare that a Tyler Kolek falls into your lap. Who was out there this year who was available in the portal and what were their chances of getting him? UConn, fir example, because R.J. Cole, who could have come back for a 5th year, chose not to. They brought in 4 guards through the transfer portal and that position was their biggest problem all year. It’s easy to look back after the fact and ask why a school didn’t grab a particular kid. But it’s not easy to project success for a kid who sat on the bench or who played at a lower level. Providence passed on Kolek even though he’s from Rhode Island.they didn’t realize how good he was. I’m sure they regret it.

So, you’re right that they probably should have done more. But it’s easier said than done. And it was a last minute need.

[X Factor]

Observing from a distance...it seems like Neptune was trying too hard to fill Jay Wright's shoes. He seemed like he was really trying to continue the whole Mr. GQ style of Wright. The picking of his beard is kind of annoying, but that's neither here nor there. I also noticed he consulted with his assistants A LOT on the sidelines.

I don't care if he was an assistant under Wright for 8 years at Villanova, once you are the HC, it is a whole different ball game. He had 1 year of HC experience before this year, and that was at Fordham.

Wright built a culture at Nova, and the core guys this year were Wright's guys, outside of Whitmore who was never coached by Wright. It will be interesting to see if Neptune can maintain that culture once he starts bringing in his own players.

How much patience will Villanova have if you guys aren't soon battling for BE Championships again?

[hoops22]

There is one thing that is still bewildering to me. They knew Moore was hurt and would miss time when the season ended. They knew Arch and his limitations. Still they did nothing in the transfer portal. Many teams in the BE made significant upgrades that paid off this year. Villanova coming off a Final Four run, with the prestige of the name, clearly could have upgraded also, but did nothing. They must have been comfortable with the team they had coming back. Neptune was handed the keys to a Ferrari. He still hasn't proven he knows how to drive.

Is Neptune the one to blame for this? The portal was open for almost 6 weeks before he was hired. Other coaches were already involved with players. He was trying to play catch up.

Did Jay know he was leaving or was it a decision he made after the season? Either way, he wasn’t in a position to be recruiting anyone off the portal and Neptune wasn’t there yet.

PG is the most difficult position to step into as a transfer because a kid has to be able to run the coach’s system. So, it’s not just a matter of talent, but how quick a learner a kid is and how readily he’s accepted by his teammates. Tough challenge.

And then there was the timing. They didn’t even know they’d be desperate for a PG until March 26, 2022 because they basically had 2 PGs top tier PGs and one of them was coming back. It was all of a sudden that this problem was thrust upon them. They had spent no time preparing for this.

It’s one thing to make upgrades as many teams did this year, but was out there specifically at PG who they should have and could have grabbed. It’s rare that a Tyler Kolek falls into your lap. Who was out there this year who was available in the portal and what were their chances of getting him? UConn, fir example, because R.J. Cole, who could have come back for a 5th year, chose not to. They brought in 4 guards through the transfer portal and that position was their biggest problem all year. It’s easy to look back after the fact and ask why a school didn’t grab a particular kid. But it’s not easy to project success for a kid who sat on the bench or who played at a lower level. Providence passed on Kolek even though he’s from Rhode Island.they didn’t realize how good he was. I’m sure they regret it.

So, you’re right that they probably should have done more. But it’s easier said than done. And it was a last minute need.

These are all fair points. I have no ideas who was still available once Moore went down, but since the Final Four had yet to be played, I have to assume there was still some talent out there. I would also say this wasn't just some ordinary team looking to fill a need in a hurry, this was Villanova, a truly elite program. They would have been considered a desirable destination for many. What continues to be troubling, they still haven't addressed this seasons shortcomings in any meaningful way. I don't think their incoming class is even ranked in the top 100.

Last year when St. John's fans were getting disgruntled with Mike Anderson, Neptune's name was one you would see discussed now and then as a potential coach. The consensus was that although what he had done at Fordham was impressive, he was still too raw, and needed more seasoning before he could be taken as a serious contender. Imagine how shocked everyone was to see him hired at Villanova shortly after that. Not to be sarcastic, but if Neptune's 16-16 at Fordham was enough to get him hired at Nova, Urgo's 25-8 this season should have him coaching at Duke next year.

You're right, hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy to pick apart what transpired this past season. But I think any objective fan has to be concerned with what happened this year, as well as the prognosis for next. The BE needs a strong Villanova.

[Jasper67]

There is one thing that is still bewildering to me. They knew Moore was hurt and would miss time when the season ended. They knew Arch and his limitations. Still they did nothing in the transfer portal. Many teams in the BE made significant upgrades that paid off this year. Villanova coming off a Final Four run, with the prestige of the name, clearly could have upgraded also, but did nothing. They must have been comfortable with the team they had coming back. Neptune was handed the keys to a Ferrari. He still hasn't proven he knows how to drive.

Is Neptune the one to blame for this? The portal was open for almost 6 weeks before he was hired. Other coaches were already involved with players. He was trying to play catch up.

Did Jay know he was leaving or was it a decision he made after the season? Either way, he wasn’t in a position to be recruiting anyone off the portal and Neptune wasn’t there yet.

PG is the most difficult position to step into as a transfer because a kid has to be able to run the coach’s system. So, it’s not just a matter of talent, but how quick a learner a kid is and how readily he’s accepted by his teammates. Tough challenge.

And then there was the timing. They didn’t even know they’d be desperate for a PG until March 26, 2022 because they basically had 2 PGs top tier PGs and one of them was coming back. It was all of a sudden that this problem was thrust upon them. They had spent no time preparing for this.

It’s one thing to make upgrades as many teams did this year, but was out there specifically at PG who they should have and could have grabbed. It’s rare that a Tyler Kolek falls into your lap. Who was out there this year who was available in the portal and what were their chances of getting him? UConn, fir example, because R.J. Cole, who could have come back for a 5th year, chose not to. They brought in 4 guards through the transfer portal and that position was their biggest problem all year. It’s easy to look back after the fact and ask why a school didn’t grab a particular kid. But it’s not easy to project success for a kid who sat on the bench or who played at a lower level. Providence passed on Kolek even though he’s from Rhode Island.they didn’t realize how good he was. I’m sure they regret it.

So, you’re right that they probably should have done more. But it’s easier said than done. And it was a last minute need.

These are all fair points. I have no ideas who was still available once Moore went down, but since the Final Four had yet to be played, I have to assume there was still some talent out there. I would also say this wasn't just some ordinary team looking to fill a need in a hurry, this was Villanova, a truly elite program. They would have been considered a desirable destination for many. What continues to be troubling, they still haven't addressed this seasons shortcomings in any meaningful way. I don't think their incoming class is even ranked in the top 100.

Last year when St. John's fans were getting disgruntled with Mike Anderson, Neptune's name was one you would see discussed now and then as a potential coach. The consensus was that although what he had done at Fordham was impressive, he was still too raw, and needed more seasoning before he could be taken as a serious contender. Imagine how shocked everyone was to see him hired at Villanova shortly after that. Not to be sarcastic, but if Neptune's 16-16 at Fordham was enough to get him hired at Nova, Urgo's 25-8 this season should have him coaching at Duke next year.

You're right, hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy to pick apart what transpired this past season. But I think any objective fan has to be concerned with what happened this year, as well as the prognosis for next. The BE needs a strong Villanova.

Completely agree with everything you said.

I only ask you the question I ask myself. Who was the PG who was available in last year’s portal who could have replaced Colin Gillespie? I haven’t come up with an answer for that one. As desirable as Villanova is, there still has to be someone like Tyler Kolek out there when you’re looking.

Different schools seem to have different philosophies about replacing legendary head coaches. Who’s been bigger than North Carolina, Duke, and UConn in the modern era? All 3 replaced retiring legends with an assistant with no prior head coaching experience. UCLA replaced John Wooden with an inexperienced assistant back in the day.Syracuse just replaced Jim Boeheim with Adrian Autry. At least Neptune had a year to get his rookie mistakes out of the way. Just saying that it’s not some odd ball move that Villanova made.

In fairness to Neptune, Fordham was 2-12 the year before he took over and a 20 loss season the year before that. He stopped a 5 year losing streak and 13 losing seasons in 14 years. He also laid the groundwork for this tear’s 25-8 season at Fordham. Frankly it was a remarkable accomplishment.

Any objective fan has to be concerned? I think I’m an objective fan and I’m not concerned. I think this is largely about managing expectations. When I did my preseason Bug East picks this year, I picked them to finish 6th, so they ended the season more or less where I thought they would. Jay Wright waited for Gillespie to finish his career before he retired. There was a reason for that. They only had 4 players coming back who had played more than 10 mpg the tear before and one of those was out with an Achilles tear, which is a devastating injury from which players rarely return to their pre-injury level. Having only 3 players back healthy to start the season with any significant experience is the very definition of a rebuilding year. They have some talent on this team, but coming into the season, they were in my view a year away. And then they got hit with additional injuries to Whitmore and Longino.

That’s my view. But in the view of Villanova fans, the expectations were that the success train should just keep rolling along. When it didn’t, it seems that many have blamed the coach. Easy way out, in my humble opinion.

[hoops22]

I guess your assessment was far more realistic than mine was for Villanova coming into this season. I actually had them finishing first, partly because I thought Longino would have a huge breakout season, playing alongside Whitmore. I also had St. john's making the tournament so my crystal ball was pretty far off. And as a warning to Creighton fans, I have you guys winning it all this year, so you know what that likely means.

[OmahaGuy]

Jasper,

I'm hard on Neptune because I'm a results-oriented guy. 17-17 and 10-10 is what it is no matter how you spin it. Kevin Ollie did great with Jim Calhoun's recruits. Literally won a natty with them! Then as Ollie got his own players in, UConn faded. Same could be said for what's happening at UNC. Hubert Davis took a team that was mostly if not entirely recruited by Roy Williams to the national title game and look what happened this year. Despite being the consensus preseason #1 team, they don't even make the tournament at all despite keeping a lot of the team from last year.

If you're not doing great with the previous HOF coaches recruits, why should I trust you once the roster is filled with your own guys? That's why I'm skeptical. So far, he only has one HS recruit. Dumont is just a 3-star per On3 and ESPN. He better hit the transfer portal HARD this offseason.

A few other notes:
*The 5 starters I had in mind were Daniels, Moore, Dixon, Slater and Whitmore. Even when healthy, again they only got 2 wins against eventual tourney teams. The only wins vs tourney teams they had all season.
*No, I don't like piling on Neptune. Though it's hard not to when you're working with great talent left from the previous HOF coach and you produce those results.
*Happy you still believe in him. Maybe in time you'll be vindicated. Never said he was a bad coach. He just didn't have a great year this year. Would LOVE to see him turn it around and prove me wrong.

[kayako]

That’s my view. But in the view of Villanova fans, the expectations were that the success train should just keep rolling along. When it didn’t, it seems that many have blamed the coach. Easy way out, in my humble opinion.

Dude, what does this even mean? What level of success do you think Villanova fanbase has for Neptune? Your continued attack on Nova fans that has any criticism of Neptune is seriously deranged. What unreasonable expectations did Nova fanbase have? Was it Nova fans that had us ranked top 5 in the preseason, then adjusted to top 20 after Jay retired? Or is Villanova not a real top 10 program and that we need to live with no tournament appearances indefinitely because we lost Gillespie? I don't know what team you root for, but your stance is more appropriate for a lesser program. Not making the tournament in 2023 at Villanova is a failure, my friend.

[XUFan09]

Kyle Neptune's performance in his first year reminds me of Travis Steele's performance in his first year. More talent than that team but the Big East was stronger this season too. The teams finished with the same conference record, and both came on strong towards the end of the season. It was a decent finish to the season but left Xavier fans with questions. I see the same with Neptune.

[Jasper67]

That’s my view. But in the view of Villanova fans, the expectations were that the success train should just keep rolling along. When it didn’t, it seems that many have blamed the coach. Easy way out, in my humble opinion.

Dude, what does this even mean? What level of success do you think Villanova fanbase has for Neptune? Your continued attack on Nova fans that has any criticism of Neptune is seriously deranged. What unreasonable expectations did Nova fanbase have? Was it Nova fans that had us ranked top 5 in the preseason, then adjusted to top 20 after Jay retired? Or is Villanova not a real top 10 program and that we need to live with no tournament appearances indefinitely because we lost Gillespie? I don't know what team you root for, but your stance is more appropriate for a lesser program. Not making the tournament in 2023 at Villanova is a failure, my friend.

I’m not attacking Nova fans. I just happen to see things differently than they do. The victim here is Kyle Neptune. Villanova fans are attacking him.

As for pre-season picks, they mean nothing and get it wrong for many teams every year. But even if they were right, they couldn’t foresee that Whitmore would be injured, or that Longino would be injured, or that Moore would sustain a second injury after he returned, AND they probably expected Moore to return sooner than he did and that he would be at top form when he returned, which he wasn’t.

I explained my assessment of Villanova coming into the season and why I think they were overrated coming into the season, so I won’t repeat myself. Those points remain to be considered. But the guy who is really being insulted here is Colin Gillespie. To think that a team could lose a player of his caliber with no ready replacement and expect them not to miss a beat is the real delusion. In the real world rather than the delusional one, you guys lost your entire backcourt for most of the season, both of whom had played 34+ minutes a game last year. Playmaking guards are the most important players on a college team. Who did you expect Neptune to replace them with? Arcidiacono? Was Neptune supposed to be a magician and just pull replacements out of the air? Antoine was supposed to be the replacement. He was a top 20 recruit. But he didn’t live up to his billing under Jay and transferred out, so not Neptune’s fault. He proved to be a mediocre player down at Redford, proving to have been a recruiting mistake. Longino and Hausen were top 75 recruits, but neither looked ready for prime time this year. When healthy, Longino actually played 21 mpg but didn’t really seize the opportunity. Was that also Neptune’s fault? Regardless, both of the were a severe downgrade in experience from the team that e was heavily seniors and juniors the year before.

I’d love to have a Villanova fan actually break down the team and explain what the strengths were that were underutilized or what strategy decisions could have brought out better performances. You can scream that this season was a failure all you want, but that doesn’t substitute for actual analysis. To the extent that this season was a failure, the blame belongs to Jay Wright because he didn’t leave the team with adequate replacements for the players they lost or with enough depth to withstand the injuries they endured.

Not a top ten program? Please. In my book, Villanova has been the top program in the country in recent years. Three Final Fours and 2 National championships in the past 6 years. No one else has done that.

And live with no tournament appearances indefinitely? Whaaat? It’s been one year but you’ve already declared Neptune a failure. Pretty harsh. He didn’t build this year’s team and he wasn’t responsible for the injuries. The future is on his shoulders now, for sure. In order to return to the recent level of success, he’s going to have to recruit his tail off and develop the players he has and those he brings in. I wish him luck and I wish you guys luck because Villanova is a progepram I’ve always liked and respected.

[Jasper67]

Jasper,

I'm hard on Neptune because I'm a results-oriented guy. 17-17 and 10-10 is what it is no matter how you spin it. Kevin Ollie did great with Jim Calhoun's recruits. Literally won a natty with them! Then as Ollie got his own players in, UConn faded. Same could be said for what's happening at UNC. Hubert Davis took a team that was mostly if not entirely recruited by Roy Williams to the national title game and look what happened this year. Despite being the consensus preseason #1 team, they don't even make the tournament at all despite keeping a lot of the team from last year.

How those coaches did is irrelevant to my point. I was responding to the assertion that Neptune was too raw and inexperienced to have been hired at a program of Villanova’s level. I was simply showing the facts that such hires are commonplace at programs at the very highest levels.

You’ve really misevaluated the UConn situation. Calhoun left the UConn program a mess. First, he resigned in September, leaving the new coach no time to prepare. Second, he left the team on probation due to violations on his watch, ineligible for both the Big East and NCAA tournaments. This handicapped the new coach even further because there were players who transferred out or left for the NBA earlier than planned because they didn’t want to play under those conditions, Ollie had to re-recruit players like Napier and Boatwright who already had one foot out the door and he did that successfully. They were as much his players as Calhoun’s at that point and he was in charge of recruiting them in the first place. To attribute the NC to “Calhoun’s players”completely misses the masterful job that Ollie did in that tournament. He completely out coached Calipari, beating him with 2 undersized guards when Kentucky had NBA size players. Ollie won that tournament with his coaching skills, not because he had someone else’s players. Calhoun had a losing Big East record in his last season with those same players PLUS Andre Drummond. He had his shot to do something with those players and he failed where Ollie succeeded. Ollie recruited very well after Calhoun’s players were done. He brought in 6 top 50 players and a number of other top 100 players. Some careers were lost to injury while others failed to live up to their billing. But his main problem was that his personal life fell apart due to his own misbehavior. His marriage failed because he was running around on his wife and his coaching suffered when he lost his focus. The guy could evaluate players, he could recruit and he could coach when his head was on straight. He wasn’t a mistake as a hire. He just failed on the job after he was initially very successful.

As far as Hubert Davis is concerned, are you saying that Roy Williams recruited those players? No head coach recruits players. He has assistants for that. He doesn’t have time for that. He is involved, for sure. He is the one who closes the deal. Hubert Davis was Williams’ assistant fir 9 years before taking over as head coach. To label his Final Four team as “Willians’ players” is just wrong. I don’t know how things worked at UNC, but Davis may have been more involved with recruits than Williams was Toward the end of Williams’ tenure, Kendall Marshall was the team’s director of recruiting but Davis was still involved. It was a team effort. UNC lost only one key player from that Final 4 team and added only one player who saw time - a 5th year transfer. For the most part, Davis still had “Williams’ players”. So, losing his predecessor’s players and replacing them with his own doesn’t explain the reversal of fortune. Williams himself missed the tournament just 3 years ago with a 14-19 team. It happens even with great coaches.

If you're not doing great with the previous HOF coaches recruits, why should I trust you once the roster is filled with your own guys? That's why I'm skeptical. So far, he only has one HS recruit. Dumont is just a 3-star per On3 and ESPN. He better hit the transfer portal HARD this offseason.

A few other notes:
*The 5 starters I had in mind were Daniels, Moore, Dixon, Slater and Whitmore. Even when healthy, again they only got 2 wins against eventual tourney teams. The only wins vs tourney teams they had all season.

Moore was not a starter for most of this season. He came back for only 12 of 33 games and was not playing at his old level for his first half dozen games back.

[*No, I don't like piling on Neptune. Though it's hard not to when you're working with great talent left from the previous HOF coach and you produce those results. [/quote]

That’s where we disagree. He was not left with great talent. Not only did Gillespie and Samuels leave, but Bryan Antoine, who had been recruited as a replacement for Gillespie, transferred out. Despite being a 5-star recruit, rated in the top 20, he never developed at Villanova. That was on Jay Wright’s watch, not Kyle Neptune’s. And then there was the injury factor. Moore, Whitmore, and Longino all qualify as “great talent”. But all were injured and missed time. Great talent isn’t if much value if it can’t get out on the court.

*Happy you still believe in him. Maybe in time you'll be vindicated. Never said he was a bad coach. He just didn't have a great year this year. Would LOVE to see him turn it around and prove me wrong.

I’m glad we can agree on this point.