Fallout Options

[ChiFlyer]

There is no doubt that XU and Temple are the two best programs, although Temple has not won an NCAA game since 2001. But they have gotten bids 4 of the last 5 years. But Richmond, St. Louis, and Dayton have all won games in the NCAA in the last 5 years. George Washington, St. Bonaventure, and St. Josephs have all made the tourney as well in the last 5 years. So that is 8 of 14 that have made the tourney in the last 5 years. St. Joe's went to the elite 8 as a 1 seed in 2004. I really don't think we should count the NIT or pay to play tourney's. I know Dayton won the NIT a couple of years ago, but the only reason I know that is because I am a fan. No one outside of the fan bases care about these tourney's, especially the pay to play ones. (CBI & CTI I think).

I think the MVC is a great league and I think Creighton is consistently the best or close to the best team in the league, but the MVC is not the A-10, especially at the top and middle. There is no need to defend the bottom teams in the A-10. They are brutal and I wish they were gone. The top of half of the A-10 gets bids and wins games in the NCAA. The MVC does not.

[thefish7]

There is no doubt that XU and Temple are the two best programs, although Temple has not won an NCAA game since 2001. But they have gotten bids 4 of the last 5 years. But Richmond, St. Louis, and Dayton have all won games in the NCAA in the last 5 years. George Washington, St. Bonaventure, and St. Josephs have all made the tourney as well in the last 5 years. So that is 8 of 14 that have made the tourney in the last 5 years. St. Joe's went to the elite 8 as a 1 seed in 2004. I really don't think we should count the NIT or pay to play tourney's. I know Dayton won the NIT a couple of years ago, but the only reason I know that is because I am a fan. No one outside of the fan bases care about these tourney's, especially the pay to play ones. (CBI & CTI I think).

I think the MVC is a great league and I think Creighton is consistently the best or close to the best team in the league, but the MVC is not the A-10, especially at the top and middle. There is no need to defend the bottom teams in the A-10. They are brutal and I wish they were gone. The top of half of the A-10 gets bids and wins games in the NCAA. The MVC does not.

CaseyGarrisonforPrez and yorost are telling you why the middle of the MVC is better. The reason the MVC ranks just a bit above the A10 is because the worst teams int he MVC would be like middling teams in the A10. The worst teams in the A10 are really, REALLY bad. At the same time, the top couple of programs have been very very good. The MVC might have one team a year that's that good, or you'll have a year like 2005-06 when there's a bunch all at once... But one thing the MVC does not do, is have 3 or 4 teams that are in the 300s in a D1 ranking. That's why the computer numbers indicate the MVC is as strong as it is. I think if you played the top 10 A10 teams vs. the MVC every year, you'd find the MVC would probably come out ahead. I also happen to think that if you take Butler and Xavier out of the picture, the MVC is clearly stronger (even if CU leaves).

[BillikensWin]

Well, let's just look at it.

All Teams matched by RPI

A-10
Butler 14
VCU 28
Temple 33
Lasalle 35
St. Louis 41
UMass 48
Charlotte 59
St. Joseph's 66
Xavier 83
Dayton 89

vs.

Creighton 18
Wichita State 20
Indiana State 49
Northern Iowa 87
Evansville 96
ISU 156
Drake 157
Bradley 167
SIUC 176
Mo. State 239

Creighton-VCU
Wichita St.-Butler
Indiana State-Temple
UNI-Lasalle
Evansville-Saint Louis
ISU-UMass
Drake-Charlotte
Bradley-St. Joes
SIUC-Xavier
Mo. State - Dayton

[BillikensWin]

Gotta say there'd be some fun games to watch in there.

[Jet915]

Well, let's just look at it.

All Teams matched by RPI

A-10
Butler 14
VCU 28
Temple 33
Lasalle 35
St. Louis 41
UMass 48
Charlotte 59
St. Joseph's 66
Xavier 83
Dayton 89

vs.

Creighton 18
Wichita State 20
Indiana State 49
Northern Iowa 87
Evansville 96
ISU 156
Drake 157
Bradley 167
SIUC 176
Mo. State 239

Creighton-VCU
Wichita St.-Butler
Indiana State-Temple
UNI-Lasalle
Evansville-Saint Louis
ISU-UMass
Drake-Charlotte
Bradley-St. Joes
SIUC-Xavier
Mo. State - Dayton

Not sure what this proves, you forgot A-10 bottom dwellers Fordham, Rhode Island etc...if the A-10 could just kick those teams out, they'd be a power conference.

[James]

With all due respect to St Louis, if they aren't invited (and I don't see them being invited) then they surely stay in the A-10. What really sets them apart from St. Joes, Fordham and LaSalle? The only reason they're really in the conversation is because they are in a market that isn't represented by the C7, Butler or Xavier. This is hardly UConn or Cincy being stranded in the Big East. I don't think there's a better conference for them than the A-10 and their other sports teams are already travelling to these places whether Butler/Xavier leave or not.

[BillikensWin]

Well, let's just look at it.

All Teams matched by RPI

A-10
Butler 14
VCU 28
Temple 33
Lasalle 35
St. Louis 41
UMass 48
Charlotte 59
St. Joseph's 66
Xavier 83
Dayton 89

vs.

Creighton 18
Wichita State 20
Indiana State 49
Northern Iowa 87
Evansville 96
ISU 156
Drake 157
Bradley 167
SIUC 176
Mo. State 239

Creighton-VCU
Wichita St.-Butler
Indiana State-Temple
UNI-Lasalle
Evansville-Saint Louis
ISU-UMass
Drake-Charlotte
Bradley-St. Joes
SIUC-Xavier
Mo. State - Dayton

Not sure what this proves, you forgot A-10 bottom dwellers Fordham, Rhode Island etc...if the A-10 could just kick those teams out, they'd be a power conference.

Couldn't find 4 more Valley teams. The bottom of the A-10 is less than irrelevant. It's like they don't exist.

[Jet915]

Well, let's just look at it.

All Teams matched by RPI

A-10
Butler 14
VCU 28
Temple 33
Lasalle 35
St. Louis 41
UMass 48
Charlotte 59
St. Joseph's 66
Xavier 83
Dayton 89

vs.

Creighton 18
Wichita State 20
Indiana State 49
Northern Iowa 87
Evansville 96
ISU 156
Drake 157
Bradley 167
SIUC 176
Mo. State 239

Creighton-VCU
Wichita St.-Butler
Indiana State-Temple
UNI-Lasalle
Evansville-Saint Louis
ISU-UMass
Drake-Charlotte
Bradley-St. Joes
SIUC-Xavier
Mo. State - Dayton

Not sure what this proves, you forgot A-10 bottom dwellers Fordham, Rhode Island etc...if the A-10 could just kick those teams out, they'd be a power conference.

Couldn't find 4 more Valley teams. The bottom of the A-10 is less than irrelevant. It's like they don't exist.

Haha, more like they SHOULDN'T exist.

[BillikensWin]

Well, let's just look at it.

All Teams matched by RPI

A-10
Butler 14
VCU 28
Temple 33
Lasalle 35
St. Louis 41
UMass 48
Charlotte 59
St. Joseph's 66
Xavier 83
Dayton 89

vs.

Creighton 18
Wichita State 20
Indiana State 49
Northern Iowa 87
Evansville 96
ISU 156
Drake 157
Bradley 167
SIUC 176
Mo. State 239

Creighton-VCU
Wichita St.-Butler
Indiana State-Temple
UNI-Lasalle
Evansville-Saint Louis
ISU-UMass
Drake-Charlotte
Bradley-St. Joes
SIUC-Xavier
Mo. State - Dayton

Not sure what this proves, you forgot A-10 bottom dwellers Fordham, Rhode Island etc...if the A-10 could just kick those teams out, they'd be a power conference.[/quote]

Couldn't find 4 more Valley teams. The bottom of the A-10 is less than irrelevant. It's like they don't exist.

Haha, more like they SHOULDN'T exist.

I think Fordham has applied to be a member of the NAIA. That is an unconfirmed report.

[ChiFlyer]

We are getting into the nitty gritty here, but the A-10 has ten teams with an rpi in top 100. The MVC has 4. Creighton is a worthy candidate, but they as I've said earlier, they are not head and shoulders above Dayton or SLU. I would probably rate them first of the three, but not by much and it has more to do with their facilties and Olympic sports then men's basketball. Dayton and Creighton probably have the two best campuses including the C7. I have not been on Vilanova's campus though.