Rank the 12 schools in value to the new league

[thegalen]

No worries, hope I didn't upset you. I'm curious, what is the other solution with Creighton + 6 east coast schools? No Dayton?

...or no Creighton. They are a great program and have a ton going for them. They are also in a bad market and are a bad geographic fit. Again, the idea that the C7's 5 East Coast schools are going willfully re-center the new league into the Midwest just doesn't make sense... Maybe if Gonzaga was located in Omaha it would, but imho, Creighton is not worth reworking the entire nature of the league. What does it do for the conference nationally? Yes there's relevance and tradition for Marquette and Depaul fans there, but you've got that in spades already by bringing in Ohio/Indiana.

[yorost]

Unfortunately, I'm a Marquette fan and don't want to see Creighton passed up. I agree on the problem, though. One more school over there would be a nice balance. I really don't want to see St. Louis over Creighton, but Creighton without St. Louis feels like too much. What would be a lot easier would be if Creighton were in St. Louis.

[gmoser1210]

Not historically, but the state of their programs over the last 5-10 years (which I think is the relevant period):

1. Georgetown
2. Marquette
3. Xavier
4. Butler
5. Villanova
6. Creighton
7. Dayton
8. Seton Hall
9. Saint Louis
10. St. John's
11. Providence
12. DePaul

[lukecu]

I'm calling it now- SLU+VCU to the C7 along with Butler and X. The question is do they bring in Creighton or Dayton? Dayton is maybe the last place in America where college basketball trumps other sports, so I think Dayton fans will tune in to watch this league regardless. I know, I know, it's really not all that difficult to fly an entire baseball team to Omaha from Philly or DC, but I think people are giving seriously short shrift to what a tax this will be on the exact same Olympic sports that Williams is name checking. Lastly, I just cannot imagine that Georgetown, Nova, St. John's, Providence and Seton Hall are going to be cool with 5 East Coast/BosWash teams + Dayton by itself. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to bring Stevens' and Smarts' squads in together for a whole host of reasons. The reasons against tend to be "institutional fit!" and "religious affiliation!" and "b-b-b-ut commuter school and academics!" but those don't pass the laugh test. The C7 is going to strike while the iron is hot, and Williams clearly has his eye on the two biggest, hottest prizes.[/quote]

Creighton is not in the middle of a cornfield. It is in a metro are with over 1 million people and direct flights from D.C., Philly, Milwaukee, Chicago, NYC. VIllinova, Georgetown, St. Johns, and etc. have to fly baseball teams down to South Florida...what's the difference if that is in a different direction...no travel increase. The travel distance is just not a vaild argument against Creighton. As for baseball, who wouldn't want to play in the home of the college world series. For other sports, Creighton is easily in the top to for all of the other main olympic sports: women's basketball, women's soccer, women's volleyball, men's soccer, men's baseball, etc.

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[lukecu]

No worries, hope I didn't upset you. I'm curious, what is the other solution with Creighton + 6 east coast schools? No Dayton?

...or no Creighton. They are a great program and have a ton going for them. They are also in a bad market and are a bad geographic fit. Again, the idea that the C7's 5 East Coast schools are going willfully re-center the new league into the Midwest just doesn't make sense... Maybe if Gonzaga was located in Omaha it would, but imho, Creighton is not worth reworking the entire nature of the league. What does it do for the conference nationally? Yes there's relevance and tradition for Marquette and Depaul fans there, but you've got that in spades already by bringing in Ohio/Indiana.

Creighton is not a bad geographic fit, you send teams down to south Florida...whats the difference if it is in a different direction. Geography is not a valid argument. non stop flights from omaha to NYC, Chicago, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, D.C.

Plus Creighton has more relevance than half the teams from the B7 and some they are considering adding. Adding Creighton would not require reworking the whole league...thats just silly. btw, Creighton has the 9th best sagarin rating in the country, thats very telling about their relevance.

[thegalen]

No worries, hope I didn't upset you. I'm curious, what is the other solution with Creighton + 6 east coast schools? No Dayton?

...or no Creighton. They are a great program and have a ton going for them. They are also in a bad market and are a bad geographic fit. Again, the idea that the C7's 5 East Coast schools are going willfully re-center the new league into the Midwest just doesn't make sense... Maybe if Gonzaga was located in Omaha it would, but imho, Creighton is not worth reworking the entire nature of the league. What does it do for the conference nationally? Yes there's relevance and tradition for Marquette and Depaul fans there, but you've got that in spades already by bringing in Ohio/Indiana.

Creighton is not a bad geographic fit, you send teams down to south Florida...whats the difference if it is in a different direction. Geography is not a valid argument. non stop flights from omaha to NYC, Chicago, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, D.C.

Plus Creighton has more relevance than half the teams from the B7 and some they are considering adding. Adding Creighton would not require reworking the whole league...thats just silly.

Luke, very good points and, again, you guys have a ton going for you. Awesome fans, awesome facilities (even if they're rented), etc. etc.. It remains, though, that the Omaha DMA/MSA < all others being considered. Perhaps more importantly, what does Omaha bring in sum or combination with the other markets? The Great Lakes/Ohio Valley teams form a natural, balanced bloc with overlapping/interconnected relevance to one another. The BosWash urban corridor teams form a natural, balanced bloc with overlapping/interconnected relevance to one another. This breeds stability and cohesion, and fosters rivalries.

As for teams being forced to go to South Florida, I see your point, but I'd just note that the addition of USF isn't exactly something that the C7 were thrilled about. This go-round they're in the catbird seat and I just do not see them bringing in 5 Midwest/Plains states schools.

[ljay]

I'm pretty sure that the C7 presidents don't read this board so everyone can say whatever they want to say but in the end they will pick the schools (in concert with the TV partner) and everyone will go from there.

Thus, VCU is in or not, Creighton is in or not, St. Louis is in or not...................

They are looking for schools with a financial commitment to their athletics programs (that's a known from their comments) and since they are presidents I believe that they are looking for high level academic institutions (that's what the "fit" comments say to me).

We'll all see in due course.

Arguing about most of the things being argued about on this site sounds like guys sitting around arguing over the size of their johnsons.

[thegalen]

I'm pretty sure that the C7 presidents don't read this board so everyone can say whatever they want to say but in the end they will pick the schools (in concert with the TV partner) and everyone will go from there.

Thus, VCU is in or not, Creighton is in or not, St. Louis is in or not...................

They are looking for schools with a financial commitment to their athletics programs (that's a known from their comments) and since they are presidents I believe that they are looking for high level academic institutions (that's what the "fit" comments say to me).

We'll all see in due course.

Arguing about most of the things being argued about on this site sounds like guys sitting around arguing over the size of their johnsons.

Hi welcome to the internet.

But you're correct. Persuasively arguing for or against this or that team is an exercise in inanity as there's no one on here that's worth convincing. Speculating, on the other hand, as to what might go down is a bit of another matter. Kinda the point of message boards, eh?

[Dew]

An argument can be made for and against so many schools. VCU doesn't fit the mold of the other schools. Creighton doesn't fit geographically. SLU and Dayton probably don't add that much in terms of basketball NCAA appearances. We'll know what the true value of each school is when the league announces it's additions.

[Jet915]

No worries, hope I didn't upset you. I'm curious, what is the other solution with Creighton + 6 east coast schools? No Dayton?

...or no Creighton. They are a great program and have a ton going for them. They are also in a bad market and are a bad geographic fit. Again, the idea that the C7's 5 East Coast schools are going willfully re-center the new league into the Midwest just doesn't make sense... Maybe if Gonzaga was located in Omaha it would, but imho, Creighton is not worth reworking the entire nature of the league. What does it do for the conference nationally? Yes there's relevance and tradition for Marquette and Depaul fans there, but you've got that in spades already by bringing in Ohio/Indiana.

I really don't get this argument, it's pretty weak. "Re-center the league" and "not worth reworking the entire nature of the league." Is there a rule that if there are more midwest teams than east coast teams, you can't call it the Big East anymore??? Are you worried there are too many "western" teams and you'd have to split Dayton and Xavier in divisions??? Well, if it's 12 teams, you don't necessarily have to have divisions. Do you mean if there are more midwest teams, you can't have the tournament at MSG anymore cause it's too midwestern??? Sorry, but that is a horrible argument. You are right, there is tradition with Marquette and Depaul going decades, we've also have had H/H series w/Xavier and Dayton recently so we do have alot of ties w/C7 schools and prospective schools. Does VCU have any ties with ANY C7 school????