Rank the 12 schools in value to the new league

[admin]

I really don't think current rankings mean a thing. XU is having a down year, and it should not mean a thing about their candidacy. 5 or 10 year trends are what matter.

I absolutely agree, but I think it's important for us Big East people to recognize that right now the strength of the league is not necessarily with us but with the teams that might join us.

I don't agree with your assessment Admin. With all due respect to what are great basketball schools--especially Butler and Xavier--but they need us more than we need them. I would not consider them the "strength" of the league. Creighton may be ranked higher than Xavier, Nova, G'Town Marquette and Butler and have a better RPI but that means squat to me on whether or not we should add them. Right now Stephen S. Austin has a higher RPI than : Kentucky, Wisconsin, V'Nova, G'Town, GA Tech, VA, Wake, Vandy, Tennessee, Marq, & Xavier. Let's not send any reps down to TX any time soon though. I think Butler and Xavier are perfect additions. After that, you need to really think this through. In 2 years Creighton could fall off the face of the baseketball scene. They have won exactly 1 game in the NCAA's in the past decade. Looking at them a little more closely I like what they bring to the table: strong fan base, good facilities, commitment to BB success, similar in size and mission to Nova and GT'n, a new market for the league, etc. But RPI and rank in 2013 means less than nothing to me. If the league starts in 2015, I would expect that between now and then Creighton would have a lot of work to do reloading to be in the top half of the league. But I would expect G'Town, Nova, Marq, Xavier, Butler (and probably Lavin and SJU by then) to be very formidable because of a history of achievement. If Creighton had a NCAA record like a Butler, Gozaga or Xavier I would probably think differently. Just being honest here...

I respect and value your opinion - we set up the site so people could discuss these types of things. I think we all recognize that the history of the Big East trumps everything here and that is why the notion of unequal distribution seems appropriate to the BE'ers. My point was simply that as things stand at this minute, there are several of the C7 who really bring nothing to the table in terms of recent (20yrs) success other than the market they exist in and the fact that they were fortunate enough to join the Big East when they did.

I think that adding strong programs like Xavier and Butler, the new conference becomes stronger in the long term which is the goal.

[mel ott]

In 2 years, Creighton may fall off the end of the earth without this league. How many sweet 16's do they have ever? How many NCAA tournament wins in the last 20 years?

This is starting to have the feel of a Wichita Shocker board-everybody thinks they are the best and we are so lucky to be around.
Creighton's national attendance ranking over the last several years:

6th 16,665 2011-12

12th 15,930 2008-09

13th 15,909 2006-07

15th 15,333 2007-08

15th 14,495 2009-10

20th 13,900 2005-06

22nd 13,507 2010-11

Other than Marquette, I suspect no one is even close to us in any year. Again, I don't spend my day gathering nuggets of info and yes, there are numerous ways to measure a program. Creighton doesn't have to apologize for how it performs and with the history,academic rankings ( and I realize we are speaking sports but thought there was value in like minded universities), and fan base Creighton won't be going anywhere off the face of the map. We have a great group returning next year (especially if D Mac comes back) and a very strong recruiting class. Suffice it to say we have lost a player or two to "bcsitis" but have performed very well on a national stage though NCAA's have been bitter the last 10 years. Doesn't help, but two or three of those losses were by 1 to teams that were seeded several higher than us. Being a non bcs you can't get people to play you and your seating reflects that. Last year CU was ranked 16th and gets an 8 seed ( no other school was the 3 seeds below were we should have been). Oh well, a lot of numbers can be played, but I strongly believe CU would reflect very well on the league if we are invited.

[Vcuboy22]

Use historical importance, past NCAA success, current status, location/TV market, whatever. Here's my list and I'm not sure anyone could argue the bottom 2 are the bottom 2. Using that scale, if the league only goes to 10 that is who should be in/out.

1) Georgetown
2) Villanova
3) St. Johns
4) Marquette
5) Xavier
6) Butler
7) Creighton
8) Seton Hall
9) Providence
10) DePaul
11) SLU
12) Dayton

Better put VCU in there chump

[DemonBaby]

I can't argue that DePaul would rank low at the moment but I think our ceiling is higher than all but a couple if things work out right.

[yorost]

In 2 years, Creighton may fall off the end of the earth without this league. How many sweet 16's do they have ever? How many NCAA tournament wins in the last 20 years?

This is starting to have the feel of a Wichita Shocker board-everybody thinks they are the best and we are so lucky to be around.
Creighton's national attendance ranking over the last several years:

Be fair, it seems like most of this board has Creighton as one of the top desires for the new conference. I've hoped Marquette and Creighton could end up in the same conference for years.

[jayelan]

From what the AD from Marquette stated today you'd have to re evaluate the prospective additions based on their Olympic experience and commitment to success as well as mens bball. I am not familiar with the prospective schools Olympic results so I can't post them, but it may alter who is actually the most attractive members based on their total sports programs and not just mens bball.

Williams said the Catholic Seven hope to build their conference with “schools that are committed to competitive excellence, primarily in men’s basketball, and also competitive excellence across a number of other team sports.”

Other sports that Williams said he will value highly in prospective additions to the Catholic Seven will include women’s basketball, men’s and women’s soccer and volleyball.

http://marquettetribune.org/2013/01/15/news/marquette-to-help-found-new-conference-with-catholic-seven/

[TheDon]

From what the AD from Marquette stated today you'd have to re evaluate the prospective additions based on their Olympic experience and commitment to success as well as mens bball. I am not familiar with the prospective schools Olympic results so I can't post them, but it may alter who is actually the most attractive members based on their total sports programs and not just mens bball.

Williams said the Catholic Seven hope to build their conference with “schools that are committed to competitive excellence, primarily in men’s basketball, and also competitive excellence across a number of other team sports.”

Other sports that Williams said he will value highly in prospective additions to the Catholic Seven will include women’s basketball, men’s and women’s soccer and volleyball.

http://marquettetribune.org/2013/01/15/news/marquette-to-help-found-new-conference-with-catholic-seven/

Thanks for sharing that. I have to admit I don't know anything about the potential schools Olympic sports but its probably wise to not entirely focus on men's basketball.

[jayelan]

Regarding Olympic sports I do not believe all C7 have a baseball team which is one that by all accounts Creighton excels in. At least based on size of their stadium. Also seems the east coast schools favor Lacrosse which not all new additions do. I am a West coast gramps moving to the midwest or east to be near our grand and great grand kids so while I am familiar with many of the names I am not up to date on their programs success rates.

I am sure we have at least one statistician as a member here who could fill us in.

[ChiFlyer]

If this article is true, then I would guess that Dayton will be included. They have strong soccer teams and very good volleyball and women's b-ball. There baseball team is also on the rise. Creighton clearly has the best baseball team and good soccer. I believe St. Louis has good soccer. I have no idea about VCU. Many UD fans have grown frustrated with the administration devoting revenue to the Olympic sports instead of just concentrating on Men's basketball. I believe Dayton has the biggest athletic budget of the A-10. Could this be case of outlining the criteria after selections have already been made, so that no one is surprised when schools X,Y,Z are chosen. I would say Butler and XU are lead pipe locks. If this report is true, UD is a near lock. I'm not sure how Creighton, St. Louis and VCU stack up, but I would guess Creighton is the best of these three across the board. Should be very interesting, but if this report is accurate, I feel a lot better about the Flyers prospects.

[Iceman]

Positioned for Long-Term Success (based on quality of local talent field, size & strength of the fan base, and their name brand)
1. Georgetown
2. Villanova
3. St. John's
4. Seton Hall
5. DePaul
6. Xavier
7. Dayton
8. Butler
9. VCU
10. Marquette
11. St. Louis
12. Creighton
13. Providence
14. Richmond

St. John's, Seton Hall, and DePaul are in such talent-laden recruiting fields, their failures on the hardwood are as much to do with the failures of their coaching staffs as anything. Put Butler's success at either of those 3 schools and their stock would go through the rough with local recruits and the media.

I tend to put more value on hardwood performance than market size, simply b/c a team that wins will attract teams. Oregon (in football) is proof of that. Duke (in basketball) is also. Being in a talent-rich recruiting field is key IMO. If you look at NBA players by state of birth, you see that NY, NJ, IL, and IN are very high. I'd like to use NBA players by State they played HS ball in, but that measure isn't available.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fri ... places.cgi