Non-Rev Rumors

[BillEsq]

On a side note... i look forward to watching my Cardinals win the BE titles in Field Hockey, WLacrosse, M Swimming and Diving, and potentially women's crew. Should go well with our ACC football title and hopefully back to back NCAA scholarship.

For those who think Non-Revs don't matter- UofL took 4th in men's capital one cup and is 21 is women's.
Some schools that are also up on those lists include... ND, Duke, and other destination top level schools.

on a side note the only BE school in the top 25 was Georgetown with Creighton as an honorable mention. Providence led the ladies at 35. Overall it was a pretty pathetic showing of BE and BE plus schools. The leagues non-revs will have to be refocused if the BE wants to be considered with the big boys.

[yorost]

Ouch, harsh and silly.

Great for Louisville, but your school got 60 out of its 66 points in one sport. The Capital One Cup is hardly some great measure of athletic departments. Even worse than Louisville, Alabama is in the top 10 for men's and only scored points in one sport. ...they're tied with North Dakota State, which I assume did the same thing.

Of course doing well in the Capital One Cup is good, but it's likely going to be hard for more than a handful of schools to consistently place in the top 25. It'll be curious to see how it develops, but it's no good measure. A schools whose team is in the top 15 of every sport could, technically, tie a school that has every single sport go winless on the year. The scores are so extremely weighted on national championships (which is not a complaint for the award, that makes sense) it makes broad comparison of programs somewhat stupid.

[BillEsq]

Ouch, harsh and silly.

Great for Louisville, but your school got 60 out of its 66 points in one sport. The Capital One Cup is hardly some great measure of athletic departments. Even worse than Louisville, Alabama is in the top 10 for men's and only scored points in one sport. ...they're tied with North Dakota State, which I assume did the same thing.

Of course doing well in the Capital One Cup is good, but it's likely going to be hard for more than a handful of schools to consistently place in the top 25. It'll be curious to see how it develops, but it's no good measure. A schools whose team is in the top 15 of every sport could, technically, tie a school that has every single sport go winless on the year. The scores are so extremely weighted on national championships (which is not a complaint for the award, that makes sense) it makes broad comparison of programs somewhat stupid.

I agree with you on every point... lol the capital one cup does have its flaws but and well i did post my notes early there are still spring sports to go (roughly 1/3). So Alabama with its one big win will eventually fall out unless they do some damage in the spring. So with that caveat and the fact that scoring structure is a bit biased .

However UofL is a top flight Men's/ Womens Basketball, W Volley Ball, Field Hockey, MSoccer, MBaseball not to mention we also made the soft ball tourney and won the Sugar. All Kidding aside that is why the cards went into the ACC and not Cincy or UConn. Non-revs do matter period.

Oh and about our points....
yes but we have 6 points in other sports... that number also doesn't count for the women's sports. insert flexing muscles emoticon here.

[yorost]

I don't know if Alabama will fall out of the top ten, baseball is the only sport left with mega points, right? I don't like how they relegate most of the sports to a far less status. Weighting is fine, but it's too stark and too simple for my taste. I'd prefer to see the points directly tied to how many teams participate in the sport, then divvy points on a percentage scale if possible, rather than a fixed number of teams.

I absolutely do not disagree about Louisville's athletic department, they're a tough loss for the Big East and one I'll miss. The point was just that one sport, even for Louisville, makes the difference from being a scoring footnote and one of the top schools. You always want representation on merit based systems, even when they're rather arbitrary.

[BillEsq]

I don't know if Alabama will fall out of the top ten, baseball is the only sport left with mega points, right? I don't like how they relegate most of the sports to a far less status. Weighting is fine, but it's too stark and too simple for my taste. I'd prefer to see the points directly tied to how many teams participate in the sport, then divvy points on a percentage scale if possible, rather than a fixed number of teams.

I absolutely do not disagree about Louisville's athletic department, they're a tough loss for the Big East and one I'll miss. The point was just that one sport, even for Louisville, makes the difference from being a scoring footnote and one of the top schools. You always want representation on merit based systems, even when they're rather arbitrary.

Lacrosse and track and field are worth 60. i agree there should be a better point system but unfortunately you know what pays the bills. on a side note... 60 points are FBS Football, FCS Football, Soccer, Lacrosse, Basketball, and Track and Field. Minus football there is no reason why BE schools are not fielding one of each of those.

This is actually the first time i've seen the rules for the capital one cup and let me tell you i could shoot holes through its arbitrary system but it is what it is.

What i can tell you is that over 10 years ago Louisville was a joke in all sports and now is a power you should see the facilities just a total commitment by the AD. Our AD realized if you want top commits for your money programs you have to run the entire department like its top flight and as you can see its panned out. I highly encourage the BE schools and my other teams (ala SLU) to follow suit.
On a side note Bellarmine has done a similar thing and as a result has become quite a D2 beast. If you want championships you need to invest in non revs.

[NJRedman]

On a side note... i look forward to watching my Cardinals win the BE titles in Field Hockey, WLacrosse, M Swimming and Diving, and potentially women's crew. Should go well with our ACC football title and hopefully back to back NCAA scholarship.

For those who think Non-Revs don't matter- UofL took 4th in men's capital one cup and is 21 is women's.
Some schools that are also up on those lists include... ND, Duke, and other destination top level schools.

on a side note the only BE school in the top 25 was Georgetown with Creighton as an honorable mention. Providence led the ladies at 35. Overall it was a pretty pathetic showing of BE and BE plus schools. The leagues non-revs will have to be refocused if the BE wants to be considered with the big boys.

The Big East will be one of if not THE top Soccer conference. St. John's is a soccer power who has won a recent NCAA title and has been in the final four recently as well. They also have been one of the few BE teams who were actually good at Baseball, and that was even when UofL was there. Not to mention that SJU is right in the middle of one of the better LAX recruiting areas in the country tapping into the Long Island kids.

[BillEsq]

I firmly believe 3 things.

The league should expand to 12
The league needs to promote its soccer and lacrosse
That in order for the league to succeed St. John's needs to put on the big boy pants and become a real power in all sports. NY is just that critical.

[NJRedman]

I firmly believe 3 things.

The league should expand to 12
The league needs to promote its soccer and lacrosse
That in order for the league to succeed St. John's needs to put on the big boy pants and become a real power in all sports. NY is just that critical.

Well seeing how we already are a power in Soccer and the best baseball program in the Big East i don't think thats an issue. Also, nobody in NYC cares about non-revenue sports. We won a national title in Soccer and nobody even noticed. They are to concerned with the Yankees, Giants and Jets in the fall.

[BillEsq]

I firmly believe 3 things.

The league should expand to 12
The league needs to promote its soccer and lacrosse
That in order for the league to succeed St. John's needs to put on the big boy pants and become a real power in all sports. NY is just that critical.

Well seeing how we already are a power in Soccer and the best baseball program in the Big East i don't think thats an issue. Also, nobody in NYC cares about non-revenue sports. We won a national title in Soccer and nobody even noticed. They are to concerned with the Yankees, Giants and Jets in the fall.

As a SLU fan i respect your soccer and your one national title ... seriously though i'm not suggesting that soccer or lacrosse will compete with MLB or NFL anytime in the next 100 years. I support Slu, lived in St. Louis, KC, and Chicago. I understand that cities with MLB teams and NFL teams the attention of the public is dominated by those leagues. I assume its the same in Milwaukee, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and DC. What i do suggest is that the BE name brand is committed to NYC, add to the fact that the league needs butts in seats at MSG. The best way to do this is for St. Johns to become a juggernaut and not just in basketball. It needs to become a brand name for sports excellence, soccer basketball and lacrosse. St. Johns is the number one conduit for the BE in the largest market of the BE and the home to the conference tourney. And as we all know basketball is what makes the whole thing tick. St. Johns needs to be a year round top 25 in those three sports every year. I'm not trying to make fun of St. Johns or state that other schools aren't important but St. Johns because it is the NY school is critically valuable in my opinion. (thankfully we aren't depending on our number 2 critically valuable program who right now is pulseless) Think of it as this MLB is better when the Yankees are good, the Big East will be bigger and better when St. John's is a top 25 team and a threat to win the title every year.

In regards to soccer. There are many previous threads on here that state my excitement for soccer and you understand my disappointment when Saint Louis was not added i spoke highly of St. Johns and the rest of the BE then and will still hope for a day SLU gets invited. I also think Soccer is important for the BE one Mens Soccer for the BE is a revenue sport albeit nothing like basketball but its no money pit. Two, soccer is the only way the BE will be getting any air time during the fall sport season. It is likely that Fox will be showing some college soccer as in the past and soccer is a strong niche sport. Is it football, no but it does provide the league with some fall exposure.

Spring is a dead sports season in the college world outside of baseball and lacrosse. St. Johns is a decent baseball school as is Creighton (and Saint Louis) but the logistics of college basketball will always make the BE a small player in the baseball world. Lacrosse the nations fastest growing sport, number 2 niche sport after soccer and a revenue generating sport has serious potential. The Big East covers both the heart of the lacrosse world and dominates the growing midwest lacrosse region. The BE schools already draw heavily out of the highschools that dominate highschool lacrosse. There is no excuse for BE schools not to be major players in lacrosse which would give the league major air time in the spring.

St. Johns has a potential to be a national juggernaut in three of the Class A NCAA sports and a league contender in a fourth. I might be wrong but i think St. Johns has the potential to accomplish this and i think its best for the league if it does. Now about that Chicago School....

[NJRedman]

As a SLU fan i respect your soccer and your one national title ... seriously though i'm not suggesting that soccer or lacrosse will compete with MLB or NFL anytime in the next 100 years. I support Slu, lived in St. Louis, KC, and Chicago. I understand that cities with MLB teams and NFL teams the attention of the public is dominated by those leagues. I assume its the same in Milwaukee, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and DC. What i do suggest is that the BE name brand is committed to NYC, add to the fact that the league needs butts in seats at MSG. The best way to do this is for St. Johns to become a juggernaut and not just in basketball. It needs to become a brand name for sports excellence, soccer basketball and lacrosse. St. Johns is the number one conduit for the BE in the largest market of the BE and the home to the conference tourney. And as we all know basketball is what makes the whole thing tick. St. Johns needs to be a year round top 25 in those three sports every year. I'm not trying to make fun of St. Johns or state that other schools aren't important but St. Johns because it is the NY school is critically valuable in my opinion. (thankfully we aren't depending on our number 2 critically valuable program who right now is pulseless) Think of it as this MLB is better when the Yankees are good, the Big East will be bigger and better when St. John's is a top 25 team and a threat to win the title every year.

In regards to soccer. There are many previous threads on here that state my excitement for soccer and you understand my disappointment when Saint Louis was not added i spoke highly of St. Johns and the rest of the BE then and will still hope for a day SLU gets invited. I also think Soccer is important for the BE one Mens Soccer for the BE is a revenue sport albeit nothing like basketball but its no money pit. Two, soccer is the only way the BE will be getting any air time during the fall sport season. It is likely that Fox will be showing some college soccer as in the past and soccer is a strong niche sport. Is it football, no but it does provide the league with some fall exposure.

Spring is a dead sports season in the college world outside of baseball and lacrosse. St. Johns is a decent baseball school as is Creighton (and Saint Louis) but the logistics of college basketball will always make the BE a small player in the baseball world. Lacrosse the nations fastest growing sport, number 2 niche sport after soccer and a revenue generating sport has serious potential. The Big East covers both the heart of the lacrosse world and dominates the growing midwest lacrosse region. The BE schools already draw heavily out of the highschools that dominate highschool lacrosse. There is no excuse for BE schools not to be major players in lacrosse which would give the league major air time in the spring.

St. Johns has a potential to be a national juggernaut in three of the Class A NCAA sports and a league contender in a fourth. I might be wrong but i think St. Johns has the potential to accomplish this and i think its best for the league if it does. Now about that Chicago School....

Theres no excuse why all ten members shouldn't be playing LAX.