Would Miller Have Left Dayton If They Were In The BE?

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

DID YOU KNOW ? – University of Dayton

UD won more games than any other school in both the 1950’s and 1960’s.

UD won 435 games between 1950 and 1969 and ranks among the top teams of the 1950s and 1960s in Division I history. The Flyers' .763 (228-71) winning percentage in the 1950s ranks fifth in the decade. Their .729 (207-77) winning percentage ranks eighth in the 1960’s.

The ESPN/Sagarin All-Time Rankings

The Top 40 Programs of Each Decade

The 1950's:
7. Dayton
29. St. John’s
34. Xavier
37. DePaul

The 1960's:
7. Dayton
10. Villanova
17. St. John’s
19. Providence

Averaging a # 7 national ranking for 20 consecutive years is a feat that no other Catholic university has ever accomplished.

http://collegepollarchive.com/mbasketba ... O-GzyMrIy4

After looking at Dayton's average AP ranking for the 50's and 60's, I have confirmed that this list is malarkey.

Dayton averaged an AP ranking of 11.7 but only appeared in 26% of the possible AP Polls during that span.

What's killing you is the 60's - during the 60's you fall to 49th.

Dayton won 17 post-season games (NCAA Tournament and NIT) during the 60’s.

Dayton Season • W-L • Post-season Tournament Results

1960–61 • 20–9 • NIT Final Four
1961–62 • 24–6 • NIT Champions (Dayton did not appear in the AP Poll at any point during the 1961-62 season.)
1962–63 • 16–10
1963–64 • 15–10
1964–65 • 22–7 • NCAA Sweet 16
1965–66 • 23–6 • NCAA Sweet 16
1966–67 • 25–6 • NCAA Tournament Runner-up (Dayton did not appear in the AP Poll at any point during the 1966-67 season.)
1967–68 • 21–9 • NIT Champions (Dayton did not appear in the AP Poll at any point during the 1967-68 season.)
1968–69 • 20–7 • NCAA 1st Round

The percentage of AP Polls that Dayton appeared in during the 1960’s does not reflect the quality of Dayton’s basketball program during that decade, and for three significant reasons:

1. The AP regular-season polls from 1949-60 had 20 teams, from 1961-68 had 10 teams, from 1969-1989 had 20 teams, and 1990-present has 25 teams.

2. The Final AP Polls were conducted prior to the post-season tournaments, meaning that none of Dayton's (nor any other teams’) tournament wins were considered in the AP Polls.

3. The The ESPN/Sagarin All-Time Rankings (which you have confirmed is 'malarkey') takes into consideration all of the games that each team plays – not just the regular-season games on which the AP Polls are based.

1967 Final AP Men's Basketball Poll

1. UCLA
2. Louisville
3. Kansas
4. North Carolina
5. Princeton
6. Western Kentucky
7. Houston
8. Tennessee
9. Boston College
10. UTEP

In the 1967 NCAA Tournament (prior to seeding), unranked Dayton beat AP #6 Western Kentucky, beat AP #8 Tennessee, beat unranked Virginia Tech, and beat AP #4 North Carolina before losing to undefeated AP #1 UCLA in the NCAA Tournament Championship game. In today's money, that's equivalent to going 2-0 vs. #2-seeded teams and going 1-1 vs. #1-seeded teams.

I would contend that an evaluation methodology which considers all of a team’s games has more validity than sports writer's polls based solely on regular-season games. If you do not like the results of a methodology, that does not mean that the methodology is 'malarkey'.

[Hoya Hoya Hoya]

No doubt he would have still been gone which is why they weren't added when this conference restarted

[stever20]

No doubt he would have still been gone which is why they weren't added when this conference restarted

If Sean Miller had been at Xavier still he no doubt would have still been gone. There's certain jobs where it's not about where a coach is already or what conference they are in. There's certain dream jobs.

[RedStorm]

Will these damn A-10 fans ever leave the board alone?!

Your team has zero chance of getting into the BE anytime soon. Dayton gives the league nothing and will never get in with X already here. Wichita St is lucky to have Gregg Marshall long enough to get tem in the AAC but that is likely their ceiling. VCU or St. Louis would need to show sustained success then maybe in a decade or two they could get a look.

The only useful addition right now would be UConn. No current A-10 program does anything for the conference

[Xudash]

Muddy, you really are making Dayton look foolish here. By all means, I expect you to keep posting because you simply don't get it, and it certainly appears as though the people who run this board value traffic over content that constructively has to do with matters concerning the Big East.

Otherwise, I can't thank you enough for including UD's newish VD Logo in your sig profile. VD - the UD logo that keeps on giving, and that proved to be a comic nightmare for Dayton when it was first rolled out.

On that note, I guess since you remain banned from UD and A10 boards, keep blasting away here. You're doing wonders for UD's reputation.

[jfan]

Muddy, you really are making Dayton look foolish here. By all means, I expect you to keep posting because you simply don't get it, and it certainly appears as though the people who run this board value traffic over content that constructively has to do with matters concerning the Big East.

Otherwise, I can't thank you enough for including UD's newish VD Logo in your sig profile. VD - the UD logo that keeps on giving, and that proved to be a comic nightmare for Dayton when it was first rolled out.

On that note, I guess since you remain banned from UD and A10 boards, keep blasting away here. You're doing wonders for UD's reputation.

For some unknown reason I'm trying to follow along on this thread but who is "Muddy"?

[xu1990]

I will answer that one...Muddy Waters is an infamous poster from the A-10 message board who would beat you over the head with statistics to try and prove any point. I believe the most famous may have been a very lengthy post proving statistically that UD had passed X as a program (I believe that was even before UD elite 8 run). Apparently Muddy is now FF?

Get all that correct?

[jfan]

Yep, got it. Good to know who the players are in the conversation. Muddy sounds a lot like another poster on the board that is a die hard Georgetown fan.

[kayako]

“And for us, I think it would really have to check a lot of boxes in terms of the basketball piece, the kind of school that it is, the geography. So at this point there’s nothing on the front burner.”

Crawfish, this is Val Ackerman's exact quote about future expansion. That tells me WSU and Gonzaga (who I suspect wants to dilute the Big East with even more subpar programs out west) aren't even on their radar.

The only box Dayton checks is its attendance. They'd probably need another good multi-year run with a new coach to be even considered. History is important, but 50s and 60s? C'mon.

I can’t speak for UConn. They’ve made very clear their desire to pursue a serious football agenda. Would I shut the door if that were ever to change? No, I wouldn’t.

This is as frank as a commissioner can get. We'd take uconn back in a heartbeat if there's some assurance that this is their long term olympic sports home.

VCU is intriguing, but probably on the same boat as Dayton currently. The Big East is simply in an observation mode instead of wheeling and dealing. I want to see the conference expand to 12, but it is what it is, a deadlocked situation. Getting tired of arguing over hypothetical situation.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

History is important, but 50s and 60s? C'mon.

My post on the topic was a factual rebuttal to this incorrect assertion on page 2 of this thread - nothing more.

Dayton arguably just had their best 4 year stretch in school history.