Would Miller Have Left Dayton If They Were In The BE?

[scoscox]

It's not going to expand. There you go. The long-term vision is currently in place operating at this very moment. 10 schools focused primarily on basketball playing some of the best basketball in the country. It's pretty simple. The long-term vision is probably as fulfilled at this moment as it ever has or will be and I personally, as well as a vast majority of fans of member schools, am very happy and excited about what we have.

Would you be this concerned if you were the fan of a team in the B1G, ACC, Big 12, Pac-12, or SEC? The BE has usually finished around 3rd of those 7. None of those conferences are panicking that the AAC is picking up WSU.

I accept that. My above post touched a bit on how that's a difference. Thanks for the reply.

No problem. Does this acceptance mean you're no longer curious about expansion/will stop creating slightly different threads to push for it?

Also, wouldn't you be aware that this is the vision of the Big East as a Georgetown fan? It was pretty explicit and Georgetown was one of the primary proponents of basketball-only. Did you take a break from being a fan for the last ten years or so and just wake up and realize things are different now?

[paulxu]

Everyone here, including Crawfish, should go to their User Signature page on the User Control Panel page, and write in the name of their favorite team.

Interesting. A lot of people seemed to have followed your suggestion.

Well, not Stever, but then...

[_lh]

Excuse me for your taking offense to my saying "NBE" when the conference looks remarkably different from what it was when I became a fan in the mid 80s, living in Dale City Virginia. Those were good times. I actually saw David Robinson play HS basketball. Those were magic times because he came on the heels of Ewing. I would have never predicted that. College basketball was MUCH different then. It was an era that the giants still roamed. The game has changed with the players. This is a great conference but its not the same conference. I'm pleased that Ewing has taken the job at Georgetown because I'd love to get back to that, even though I know there is no going back.
There is nothing wrong with being the new Big East. It's just different. It doesn't make it more or less. This incarnation just came after the ones that made us stay up late at night listening to recorded interviews for the 5th time. It was just a different generation.

The ACC looks pretty different as well. No one's calling it the NACC. Most of the giants of your 80's BE are still here. GTown, St. John's, Nova, Seton Hall. Basically, just lost Syracuse, Pitt and UCONN and replaced them with us, Butler and Creighton.

Mainly I see NBE used by disgruntled UC fans to belittle the conference, but even they don't use it anymore. Maybe it was helpful the first few years after the move, but I think it's past time people started using Big East freely at this point.

Exactly.

[Dwon]

The NBE isn't the rough rumbling n tumblin Big east that it once was, thats why peeople refer to it as the NBE and rightfully so. I mean teams that built the old BE such as UCONN are no longer in it .Essentially the NBE can't take credit for other teams that layed the bricks , those bricks now go out with the teams when they moved. The BE has to earn its stripes all over again and until that happens they will still be referred to as the NBE. Hopefully you can understand now.

[_lh]

You are incorrect. The new ACC is not what it once was either. The new B10 is watered down with Rutgers. The new PAC10 is not what it was. Who calls the B12, the new B12? No one.

The only people calling it the NBE are trolls like you wishing your team was in the BE.

[Bill Marsh]

The only people calling it the NBE are trolls like you wishing your team was in the BE.

That's rude.

[_lh]

What's rude is troll posters attempting to degrade the BE on the BE message board. Go talk your garbage on the A10 board.

[jfan]

The NBE isn't the rough rumbling n tumblin Big east that it once was, thats why peeople refer to it as the NBE and rightfully so. I mean teams that built the old BE such as UCONN are no longer in it .Essentially the NBE can't take credit for other teams that layed the bricks , those bricks now go out with the teams when they moved. The BE has to earn its stripes all over again and until that happens they will still be referred to as the NBE. Hopefully you can understand now.

You mean when we win a national championship or place 70% of the league in the tournament? Are those the stripes you are talking about?

[Hall2012]

You are MASSIVELY overrating Wichita State's brand. They don't even deserve to mentioned in the same breath with Gonzaga. There is 1 and only 1 entity that would benefit from Wichita State joining the Big East - and that is Wichita State University. They are a mid-major brand in a small market with little national appeal that Fox Sports will not want to pay extra for. And there's no way the other 10 schools will be cutting into their shares to feed an extra mouth. The only schools not currently in a P5 conference or the Big East that have a national brand big enough to be worth Fox paying for are Gonzaga and UConn. The schools being discussed that that are in big enough media markets to prove beneficial to the Big East are UConn and Saint Louis.

And no, when a school has momentum with a coach is not the best time to add them. It is the best time for them to petition to be added because it is when they look their absolute best. It's when they have the most leverage and a conference is at risk of being seduced into a mistake by their recent success.

Right now, there is absolutely no need to expand. If UConn wants to join - fine - that's not a program we should say no to. Otherwise? There's no reason not to stay a 10 for the foreseeable future. There's simply nobody else out there that adds enough value.

How exactly can you call a school with more NCAA appearances and success than your own a mid major brand? I'm not saying I'm in favor or them or not nor am I arguing about the market but I think you're so focused on their brand you've forgotten to compare it to yours and see how it stacks up.

I haven't forgotten anything. That's completely irrelevant as my school is not an expansion candidate. There's no sense in comparing candidates to individual members as nobody's being kicked out, but since you asked, I'd say Seton Hall has a stronger brand than Wichita State anyway. Sure, Wichita's brand is hot right now, I won't deny that, but it's all a matter of recent success and you can't just assume that will continue forever. What else do they offer if the wins dry up? Success or not, Seton Hall is still an established Big East brand that plays in a professional arena in the largest market in the country. Even DePaul, with all its losing, has more long term brand value than WSU.

[Hall2012]

You are MASSIVELY overrating Wichita State's brand. They don't even deserve to mentioned in the same breath with Gonzaga. There is 1 and only 1 entity that would benefit from Wichita State joining the Big East - and that is Wichita State University. They are a mid-major brand in a small market with little national appeal that Fox Sports will not want to pay extra for. And there's no way the other 10 schools will be cutting into their shares to feed an extra mouth. The only schools not currently in a P5 conference or the Big East that have a national brand big enough to be worth Fox paying for are Gonzaga and UConn. The schools being discussed that that are in big enough media markets to prove beneficial to the Big East are UConn and Saint Louis.

And no, when a school has momentum with a coach is not the best time to add them. It is the best time for them to petition to be added because it is when they look their absolute best. It's when they have the most leverage and a conference is at risk of being seduced into a mistake by their recent success.

Right now, there is absolutely no need to expand. If UConn wants to join - fine - that's not a program we should say no to. Otherwise? There's no reason not to stay a 10 for the foreseeable future. There's simply nobody else out there that adds enough value.

We can agree to disagree. It's not every day that a Top 10 team for the upcoming year is on the market. Everything you said would have been said about Xavier, Butler, and Creighton 3 years ago. I'm not going to begin to fall into that trap. Perception matters. We all talk about how "this team needs to stand out more" but when its not our favorite (or they're no longer available) we sing a different tune.
You even just agreed with me about the Zags.
I agree that the Zags are the only team worth expanding for now. That's not the point. Is there ever any reason to expand out of strength? Or is this an issue that will only come up when the Big East needs more juice?

The big difference is that 3 years ago, the Big East needed more teams. Standing pat at 7 simply wasn't a viable option. The area where we disagree is the importance of recent success. It's clearly your top (and maybe only) priority. It's much farther down my priority list because it likely won't always be there and I don't want to get stuck with a liability down the road. I'd be fully supportive of expanding for strength, but I want more long term strength and (aside from UConn and Gonzaga) I only see short term answers currently available, which I don't think are worth expanding for. Just my opinion. Obviously you don't have to agree with me.