Would Miller Have Left Dayton If They Were In The BE?

[MUBoxer]

Dayton arguably just had their best 4 year stretch in school history.

Wrong, and by a big margin. Previously posted:

DID YOU KNOW ? – University of Dayton

UD won more games than any other school in both the 1950’s and 1960’s.

UD won 435 games between 1950 and 1969 and ranks among the top teams of the 1950s and 1960s in Division I history. The Flyers' .763 (228-71) winning percentage in the 1950s ranks fifth in the decade. Their .729 (207-77) winning percentage ranks eighth in the 1960s.

The ESPN/Sagarin All-Time Rankings

The Top 40 Programs of Each Decade

The 1950's:
7. Dayton
29. St. John’s
34. Xavier
37. DePaul

The 1960's:
7. Dayton
10. Villanova
17. St. John’s
19. Providence

Averaging a # 7 national ranking for 20 consecutive years is a feat that no other Catholic university has ever accomplished.

No way these rankings are accurate if they have UNC over Marquette for the 70s. We had a better winning percentage and success in the tournament during that span. There's some bs in this list.

After looking at Dayton's average ranking for the 50s and 60s in the AP I have confirmed that this list is malarkey Dayton averaged a ranking of 11.7 but only appeared in 26% of the possible polls during that span. What's killing you is the 60s, during the 50s you average out to rank 10th during the 60s you fall to 49th.

http://collegepollarchive.com/mbasketba ... O-GzyMrIy4

[CrawfishBucket]

And stop ranting on about Wichita. The Big East would never have opened the public door for them, and never should. UConn? Probably, if the football problem was taken care of. VCU? Maybe; from what I hear, they're at least a pretty good school in a desirable area. Wichita? Hell no. Never was a good idea, never would be a good idea. They're a fit for the AAC, not the Big East.

Wichita is relevant because their coach has stood pat. He's been offered a lot of jobs for a long time but hasn't budged. Meanwhile, the Daytons and VCUs are getting poached.
As a brand, the Shockers have transcended into the mainstream hoops vernacular like only Gonzaga has. That includes the schools who were added in the first expansion.
Gregg Marshall was a big force behind their recent move. Here is an interview he did with Rothstein. https://soundcloud.com/compass-media/co ... marshall-1
As I've said all along, the conference will never come out ahead by not taking the best brands available. It's never worked any other way in conference realignment. When it comes down to it, the networks aren't going to offer a bigger contract on the "institutional fit" standard.
What the networks are more interested in, are narratives that have already played out and have made certain teams "institutions in college basketball"... All the press the AAC has gotten over the last week shows that Wichita State moves the needle. Only Gonzaga would have gotten them similar attention.
If/when the NBE expands, is there going to be anyone available that moves the needle? Let me put it this way, is there going to be anyone available that justifies an equal share of television money?
Whether some like to admit it here or not, that's the only thing that will matter.
Guys like Marshall are rare but they are out there. He has completely transformed that job just like Gary Patterson has done with the TCU job in football. Will he someday move? Maybe. Nevertheless, the resources attached to that job now (3 mill coaching salary and a good conference) will sustain it as more than a flash in the pan. Beyond that, they likely wont be losing their media shine any time soon. As far as the AAC is concerned, they only have a couple years to go before negotiating their TV deal. It would take a major shift for Marshall to go anywhere before then. They'll add value.
Who is going to add value to the NBE 10? Are their really 2-4 brands out there with stroke? I only see Gonzaga and that's it. Dayton and VCU are obviously the next tier.
The time to add is when they have the momentum attached to a Few, Marshall, or Archie Miller. Yes, I think Miller would have left too. However, the NBE MUST take such things into consideration the next time its going to add. Otherwise there will be no buzz... and buzz is what justifies a share.

[NovaYanks10]

I'm sick of hearing about Dayton. Mid major team/school in a mid major conference.

Let BE schools talk here, enough Dayton talk.

[_lh]

And stop ranting on about Wichita. The Big East would never have opened the public door for them, and never should. UConn? Probably, if the football problem was taken care of. VCU? Maybe; from what I hear, they're at least a pretty good school in a desirable area. Wichita? Hell no. Never was a good idea, never would be a good idea. They're a fit for the AAC, not the Big East.

Wichita is relevant because their coach has stood pat. He's been offered a lot of jobs for a long time but hasn't budged. Meanwhile, the Daytons and VCUs are getting poached.
As a brand, the Shockers have transcended into the mainstream hoops vernacular like only Gonzaga has. That includes the schools who were added in the first expansion.
Gregg Marshall was a big force behind their recent move. Here is an interview he did with Rothstein. https://soundcloud.com/compass-media/co ... marshall-1
As I've said all along, the conference will never come out ahead by not taking the best brands available. It's never worked any other way in conference realignment. When it comes down to it, the networks aren't going to offer a bigger contract on the "institutional fit" standard.
What the networks are more interested in, are narratives that have already played out and have made certain teams "institutions in college basketball"... All the press the AAC has gotten over the last week shows that Wichita State moves the needle. Only Gonzaga would have gotten them similar attention.
If/when the NBE expands, is there going to be anyone available that moves the needle? Let me put it this way, is there going to be anyone available that justifies an equal share of television money?
Whether some like to admit it here or not, that's the only thing that will matter.
Guys like Marshall are rare but they are out there. He has completely transformed that job just like Gary Patterson has done with the TCU job in football. Will he someday move? Maybe. Nevertheless, the resources attached to that job now (3 mill coaching salary and a good conference) will sustain it as more than a flash in the pan. Beyond that, they likely wont be losing their media shine any time soon. As far as the AAC is concerned, they only have a couple years to go before negotiating their TV deal. It would take a major shift for Marshall to go anywhere before then. They'll add value.
Who is going to add value to the NBE 10? Are their really 2-4 brands out there with stroke? I only see Gonzaga and that's it. Dayton and VCU are obviously the next tier.
The time to add is when they have the momentum attached to a Few, Marshall, or Archie Miller. Yes, I think Miller would have left too. However, the NBE MUST take such things into consideration the next time its going to add. Otherwise there will be no buzz... and buzz is what justifies a share.

Craw,

You are full of crap and obviously not a fan of any BE team. Take your nonsense to the A10 board.

The BE, not the NBE does not need to expand for any reason right now. WSU, UD, SLU and Gonzaga will always come if called. There is no reason to act now. You want it because your team is not in the BE and you want them in. Just stop with your garbage posts on move onto your team's message board or the A10 board.

[billyjack]

Everyone here, including Crawfish, should go to their User Signature page on the User Control Panel page, and write in the name of their favorite team.

[paulxu]

In case there is any confusion about my screen name and school, or the X on the shield of the avatar...my signature line is from a statement made by Jordan Crawford after he dunked over LeBron in summer camp.

[Hall2012]

You are MASSIVELY overrating Wichita State's brand. They don't even deserve to mentioned in the same breath with Gonzaga. There is 1 and only 1 entity that would benefit from Wichita State joining the Big East - and that is Wichita State University. They are a mid-major brand in a small market with little national appeal that Fox Sports will not want to pay extra for. And there's no way the other 10 schools will be cutting into their shares to feed an extra mouth. The only schools not currently in a P5 conference or the Big East that have a national brand big enough to be worth Fox paying for are Gonzaga and UConn. The schools being discussed that that are in big enough media markets to prove beneficial to the Big East are UConn and Saint Louis.

And no, when a school has momentum with a coach is not the best time to add them. It is the best time for them to petition to be added because it is when they look their absolute best. It's when they have the most leverage and a conference is at risk of being seduced into a mistake by their recent success.

Right now, there is absolutely no need to expand. If UConn wants to join - fine - that's not a program we should say no to. Otherwise? There's no reason not to stay a 10 for the foreseeable future. There's simply nobody else out there that adds enough value.

[JohnW22]

I'm sick of hearing about Dayton. Mid major team/school in a mid major conference.

Let BE schools talk here, enough Dayton talk.

This. If there was a good expansion candidate they'd be in the conference already. Otherwise no need to talk about them.

[MUBoxer]

You are MASSIVELY overrating Wichita State's brand. They don't even deserve to mentioned in the same breath with Gonzaga. There is 1 and only 1 entity that would benefit from Wichita State joining the Big East - and that is Wichita State University. They are a mid-major brand in a small market with little national appeal that Fox Sports will not want to pay extra for. And there's no way the other 10 schools will be cutting into their shares to feed an extra mouth. The only schools not currently in a P5 conference or the Big East that have a national brand big enough to be worth Fox paying for are Gonzaga and UConn. The schools being discussed that that are in big enough media markets to prove beneficial to the Big East are UConn and Saint Louis.

And no, when a school has momentum with a coach is not the best time to add them. It is the best time for them to petition to be added because it is when they look their absolute best. It's when they have the most leverage and a conference is at risk of being seduced into a mistake by their recent success.

Right now, there is absolutely no need to expand. If UConn wants to join - fine - that's not a program we should say no to. Otherwise? There's no reason not to stay a 10 for the foreseeable future. There's simply nobody else out there that adds enough value.

How exactly can you call a school with more NCAA appearances and success than your own a mid major brand? I'm not saying I'm in favor or them or not nor am I arguing about the market but I think you're so focused on their brand you've forgotten to compare it to yours and see how it stacks up.

[CrawfishBucket]

You are MASSIVELY overrating Wichita State's brand. They don't even deserve to mentioned in the same breath with Gonzaga. There is 1 and only 1 entity that would benefit from Wichita State joining the Big East - and that is Wichita State University. They are a mid-major brand in a small market with little national appeal that Fox Sports will not want to pay extra for. And there's no way the other 10 schools will be cutting into their shares to feed an extra mouth. The only schools not currently in a P5 conference or the Big East that have a national brand big enough to be worth Fox paying for are Gonzaga and UConn. The schools being discussed that that are in big enough media markets to prove beneficial to the Big East are UConn and Saint Louis.

And no, when a school has momentum with a coach is not the best time to add them. It is the best time for them to petition to be added because it is when they look their absolute best. It's when they have the most leverage and a conference is at risk of being seduced into a mistake by their recent success.

Right now, there is absolutely no need to expand. If UConn wants to join - fine - that's not a program we should say no to. Otherwise? There's no reason not to stay a 10 for the foreseeable future. There's simply nobody else out there that adds enough value.

We can agree to disagree. It's not every day that a Top 10 team for the upcoming year is on the market. Everything you said would have been said about Xavier, Butler, and Creighton 3 years ago. I'm not going to begin to fall into that trap. Perception matters. We all talk about how "this team needs to stand out more" but when its not our favorite (or they're no longer available) we sing a different tune.
You even just agreed with me about the Zags.
I agree that the Zags are the only team worth expanding for now. That's not the point. Is there ever any reason to expand out of strength? Or is this an issue that will only come up when the Big East needs more juice?