Is Homogeneity Of Membership Good Or Bad?

[Dwon]

Self centered pride will only leave the league worse off and possibly sink to irrelevancy... Lets be clear about that. Take a look at any other private school only league(the Ivy's for example). History shows that public school teams thrive and the BE showed that when they mix they are the best in the country. We should always look to improve...

Plus I'm sure some of you guys would love a public school to beat up on...

Alright, before this board gets out of hand,I'd like to state a few of VCU's accomplishments that haven't been stated already

The VCU Rams have that legendary first four to final 4 2011 Final four run. Many criics said they weren't even supposed to get in the tournament but they proved them wrong. VCU one of Americas team's aside from Butler have one of the most fans nationwide. Not compared to the UNC's but based on its Giant Killer days. No longer a giant killer but ELITE.

VCU has made it to the A-10 title game for the last 5 years since it joined. Sup Butler and Xavier fans 12 consecutive title games if you include when they were in the CAA.

Only 10 schools have made NCAA tournament appearances the last 7 seasons: Kansas, North Carolina, Gonzaga, Wichita State, Michigan State, Cincinnati, Wisconsin, Duke, Iowa State and VCU

The team won at least 24 games, VCU and Kansas are the only NCAA schools to reach that feat the last 11 seasons.

VCU SWAG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSsjCC9ouHE

[NovaYanks10]

The poster that mentioned this topic being tired has it right.

VCU, Dayton, Gonzaga will never happen for various reasons.

The 10-team model allows for the round robin, which provides an undisputed regular season winner with the balanced schedule.

The conference has to think big for expansion, even if the schools seem out of reach. That is what kind of school it would take to expand and put the round robin at risk. Schools like UConn, Notre Dame, Boston College, and Wake Forest. I seem crazy you ask? I'm just being realistic as to how far away the conference is from expansion, which is a good thing in my view.

[Bill Marsh]

Yawn. This is tired. I can make a pretty good argument that they are an average program whose best days are long past.

Average???

- 7 straight trips to the tournament
- 7 tournament wins in the past 7 years
- 8 tournament bids in the last 9 years
- 10 tournament bids in the last 14 years
- 7 conference championships in the past 14 years
- annually sell out their home arena for the season

Sure, that's average. Doesn't every program do that?

I agree, Bill. I'd still rate our next potential new members of the Big East in the following order of preference (with caveats described):
1) UConn (with a huge buy-out clause and, preferably, football reduced to the FBS-level although Independent or non-power-5 membership would be OK)
1a) VCU (with a buy-out at least equal to that of our current members and a pledge never to establish a football program above the FBS-level)
2) SLU (following at least 3 years of top-5 finishes in the A-10 and average home attendance figures in excess of 7,000 --- simply to prove the Bills can deliver the St. Louis media market; a promise never to establish a football program above the FBS-level)
3) UD (prove that Archie Miller wasn't a fluke by continued success in the A-10 or AAC; no football above the FBS-level) --- I'll still hold my nose if they gain membership to the Big East because I'd prefer any of the above for expansion of our media base which UD would not provide to the same extent as the others.

Makes sense. Obviously everyone would love St L if they could get their act together.

[gtmoBlue]

How many expansion threads are there on this board?

The Big East should expand...ASAP. Round Robin, my heinie. Waiting for "necessity", pressure, or some other malady to strike before acting is nonsense. Taking action when your position is strong is a much better course. The conference is strong, viable, and should expand and take the top team available (Zags) and one other (potential up & comer) to go to 12 members. Then we wait for the next football shakeup and take a couple from the fallout to move to 14 members. There are disgruntled members of the ff and the BE should "court" them on an informal level.

As for adding public universities - imo okay if they fit the other criteria. However, most here and other boards naively overlook the advantages of an all private league-Privacy. The Prez's are apparently in no hurry as they appreciate there new found solidarity, privacy, and cohesiveness. Folks wonder what is on the minds of the Prez's, the league office, etc. No one knows as they are not subject to FOIA, they have much lower levels of governmental reporting, and generally keep their mouths shut. I imagine that the BE office and the individual President's like this environment. IMO this aspect of BE business is the major reason that so few public schools may garner interest.

Having said that - UConn (who ain't coming aboard) and other major public schools that may get left out of the next round of FF realignment would be notable exceptions to this and possibly be the schools to break down the private vs public wall.

Farfetched Exp: if the B12 were the next ff victim, Iowa St and the Kansas schools could be good candidates for inclusion, as well as private Baylor and TCU. Not that the chances of this happening are good, but cherry picking the 2 Kansas schools from that group would be a good pickup of publics for the conference.

Regardless - Expansion is not a luxury based on short-term, near sighted vision, nor fanbased fantasies of "perfection". (Note: the BET winner is the Big East Champion, not the regular season numbers game winner. So it doesn't matter who leads the regular season, nor does it matter whether we play "round robin" or not.) It is a necessary function of a vibrant, living, and farsighted conference - ever vigilant to take advantage of opportunities (like Delany's B1G).

[sciencejay]

How many expansion threads are there on this board?

The Big East should expand...ASAP. Round Robin, my heinie. Waiting for "necessity", pressure, or some other malady to strike before acting is nonsense. Taking action when your position is strong is a much better course. The conference is strong, viable, and should expand and take the top team available (Zags) and one other (potential up & comer) to go to 12 members. Then we wait for the next football shakeup and take a couple from the fallout to move to 14 members. There are disgruntled members of the ff and the BE should "court" them on an informal level.

As for adding public universities - imo okay if they fit the other criteria. However, most here and other boards naively overlook the advantages of an all private league-Privacy. The Prez's are apparently in no hurry as they appreciate there new found solidarity, privacy, and cohesiveness. Folks wonder what is on the minds of the Prez's, the league office, etc. No one knows as they are not subject to FOIA, they have much lower levels of governmental reporting, and generally keep their mouths shut. I imagine that the BE office and the individual President's like this environment. IMO this aspect of BE business is the major reason that so few public schools may garner interest.

Having said that - UConn (who ain't coming aboard) and other major public schools that may get left out of the next round of FF realignment would be notable exceptions to this and possibly be the schools to break down the private vs public wall.

Farfetched Exp: if the B12 were the next ff victim, Iowa St and the Kansas schools could be good candidates for inclusion, as well as private Baylor and TCU. Not that the chances of this happening are good, but cherry picking the 2 Kansas schools from that group would be a good pickup of publics for the conference.

Regardless - Expansion is not a luxury based on short-term, near sighted vision, nor fanbased fantasies of "perfection". (Note: the BET winner is the Big East Champion, not the regular season numbers game winner. So it doesn't matter who leads the regular season, nor does it matter whether we play "round robin" or not.) It is a necessary function of a vibrant, living, and farsighted conference - ever vigilant to take advantage of opportunities (like Delany's B1G).

I may regret saying this, but I agree with GTMO. We are in a position of strength, and I think we should strike while the iron is hot.

With regard to why the C7 presidents came to 10 as the 'ideal' number for the NBE, I would argue that it was due to dumb luck or other circumstances, not due to a vision for what the perfect conference should look like. It was likely due to more pragmatic issues present at the time. What if they really thought 12 were preferable, but two other schools (in addition to BU, X and CU) weren't responsive in a positive way due to exigent factors--couldn't pull the trigger in the time-frame required, weren't sure the grass would be greener (without Louisville, Syracuse, etc.), FOX didn't want those schools added to its portfolio? I would argue this is more likely than some all-encompassing vision that a ten school, hoops-only conference was ideal.

Plus, the NBE wasn't formed like conferences were back in the day where regional rivals joined forces. Heck, the OBE was formed BEFORE college basketball on TV was king. It very well could've been a failed experiment had ESPN not taken off like it did (I think the OBE and ESPN owe everything to each other in that each was necessary to make the other great, and the public was ready for that kind of product on their TVs). In addition, when the NBE came together, FOX Sports was an integral component (possibly a majority voting share) of the process. That can't be overstated. This was a new kind of relationship born out of an attempt by the C7 presidents to keep their programs relevant and by FOX Sports to try to chew into the overwhelming TV sports market share enjoyed by the WWL.

For all we know, the presidents are sitting there laughing that we continually argue about whether to expand or not and if yes, to whom an offer should be extended. Maybe they think it's a great idea, but FOX isn't on board. Or they can't agree on which school(s) to invite. Or they did want to invite someone (UConn, VCU, whoever), but those schools didn't jump on board. I have argued in other threads that we would be stronger with 12 teams, and I stand by that. Others argue that academic strength, public/private, whatever characteristic is disqualifying, and I don't buy that. Again, this conference is a modern product generated with major input from a for-profit sports marketing organization, FOX Sports. I think any two of WSU, Gonzaga, VCU, Dayton or UConn (but only if they drop football to FCS which I truly believe won't happen) would be valuable additions to the league. Then there would be more programs that would consistently hover in the top 10-30, and that add would add value to FOX's product.

For those that say absolutely no way to any of those 'candidates,' I would like to know if you have actual information (you speak to people who are in the relevant conference meetings), or if that's just your opinion. If you don't have inside information, it's just opinion (like my statements above). To suggest that you 'know' what will/won't happen or what the presidents are/are not thinking is ridiculous.

[CrawfishBucket]

Doug Gottlieb just threw this out there.

Doug Gottlieb‏Verified account @GottliebShow

Doug Gottlieb Retweeted Trevor Hayes

BEeast should have added SLU,Wichita,Illinois State -- combined w/Marquette/Depaul for MW division

https://twitter.com/GottliebShow/status ... 8923189248

[Hall2012]

Sorry, but I still really don't see what VCU brings to the Big East. Okay, they made a final four 6 years ago. George Mason made a final four once too, why aren't we talking about them? It's a move that's obviously beneficial to VCU, but I don't see any benefit to the conference or any of the 10 current member schools.

They make the tournament a lot by beating up on bad conferences. That doesn't mean much. Any school can look good by pointing to how they look when they're winning? It won't be so easy in the Big East, so what do they offer if they're in the bottom half and missing the tournament more often than not?

[Hoya33]

The answer four years ago was Boston University and Richmond, and the answer four years from now will be Boston University and Richmond. They are urban, private, rich, and, the best part, on the east coast.

The faster they are included the less will have to listen to insecure Xavier fans rattle off reasons why Dayton should not be considered.

[Hoya Hoya Hoya]

The answer four years ago was Boston University and Richmond, and the answer four years from now will be Boston University and Richmond. They are urban, private, rich, and, the best part, on the east coast.

The faster they are included the less will have to listen to insecure Xavier fans rattle off reasons why Dayton should not be considered.

Yeah but they both are garbage teams...

Conference literally just put 7/10 teams in the tournament WHILE GEORGETOWN HAS BEEN DEPAUL 2.0. Do not expand.

[Gopher+RamFan]

Sorry, but I still really don't see what VCU brings to the Big East. Okay, they made a final four 6 years ago. George Mason made a final four once too, why aren't we talking about them? It's a move that's obviously beneficial to VCU, but I don't see any benefit to the conference or any of the 10 current member schools.

They make the tournament a lot by beating up on bad conferences. That doesn't mean much. Any school can look good by pointing to how they look when they're winning? It won't be so easy in the Big East, so what do they offer if they're in the bottom half and missing the tournament more often than not?

7 straight NCAAs through 3 coaches, 10 out of 14 past NCAAs with 4 coaches. Thats a program and an environment dedicated to basketball. Travels wel to NYC, has a $25 million practice facility, 99 straight sell outs which started before the Final Four.

Smack in the middle of great recruiting ground (VA, MD and NC are all top 5 in terms of D1 basketball recruits). Public school in the state capital, encompasses the entire state as opposed to a city. Has a $2 million/yr media rights deal (firm data not conjecture on how many eyeballs they bring in).

Would instantly be the "bad guy" in conference due to the public/private dichotomy (already get this in the A10 enough when traveling to private schools).

Within the current footprint. 11 straight seasons of 24+ wins.

If beating up on "lesser conferences" (CAA then A10) was that easy, everyone would be doing it.