What's Up With Gonzaga?

[Bill Marsh]

Of course it's my opinion,

Nonetheless, it's an opinion supported by fact. An earlier post presented the idea that each school would have to fly dozens of teams to Spokane every year. That's overblown. It's factually incorrect. It's typical of the exaggerations that are encountered on this topic.

The situation is treated as if it's unique. It isn't. The WAC spans 2100 air miles from McAllen, Texas, outside Brownsville, to Seattle, the same distance as NY to Spokane. But. Even more common were the trips of hundreds of miles in. The Ivy League, Big Ten, SEC, PAC-8, etc 50-100 years ago when transport was by bus or train. This is the 21st century when planes travel 10 times as fast as buses and even faster as compared with trains. Bus trips can take 6-10 hours over those distances. But they did it.

I said that travel is overblown. You disagree by citing TV markets, recruiting, and attendance. None of those have anything to do with travel issues, which are in fact overblown. as far as attendance I'd oncerned, Gonzaga sells out every game and has a waiting list of 1000 names. They have a civic arena available for the increased demand that Big East games would inevitably brings.

You're concerned about them making a down turn. Okay, give me a better candidate.

Omaha is easier to fly into than Spokane? I don't have any experience with either. But I do know that Spokane has an international airport and Omaha does not. So what makes one easier than the other? Regardless, the way to do this would be via charter, which makes ease of airport access irrelevant.

You are talking about north south travel which isn't the same as east west travel which deals with crossing time zones.

Nope. I gave the example of Hawaii, which is 3 time zones removed from the West Coast, same as we are.

Speaking of time zones do we want Gonzaga hosting weeknight games at 4pm? Are they going to see out those games? Are they going to help the rest of the leagues ratings watching our local 7pm start times?

Why would Gonzaga start games at 4:00? Since when do all our games start at 7:00? I already explained in an earlier post in this thread that Gonzaga already plays most of its games at 6:00, which is a 9:00 broadcast in the East and 8:00 in the Central. You have a problem with that? I've watched many Big East games at 9:00.

Also you act like the WAC is the norm.

No, I don't. I used it as an example of the fact that the Gonzaga is not unique. And they're doing it with a lot less money than the Big East. What the WAC and the Mountain West show is that it can be done.

That is a conference of connivence made up of transient programs trying to stay at the D1 level. We are a power conference who has options.

What better options do we have than Gonzaga?

If your opinion was backed by fact it would just be fact, it is not fact.

The facts I stated are not facts? You're confusing me.

This discussion isn't new and has been hashed out every few months the last four years. You don't know anything we don't already know and you don't know more than the presidents who declined to add Gonzaga 5 years ago.

Absolutely true.

Yes, Spokane has an international airport without a single direct flight from NYC.

So?

One more thing, those guys weren't traveling for Wednesday night games. Weekend games by train 100 years ago with much shorter schedules aren't that hard. Also i'd use a different analogy than the Ivy league, they are all very close to each other.

So don't schedule Gonzaga on a Wednesday night. No big deal.

Do you have any idea how long it takes to travel the 360 miles from Philadelphia to Hanover, NH by train? Or from Boston to Ithaca? Or either by bus. I don't care how short the schedules were. It's about speed and distance.

I used the Ivy League because we're all familiar with it here in the East and have probably driven the roads they have to drive. Yes, it's compact compared with the PAC-12 Yet, it still takes a long time to get around. How long does it take you to get to Smuggler's Notch for a ski weekend? Or to Lake Placid? Those are long drives and no shorter than a flight to Spokane.

If you don't like the Ivy as an example, I also mentioned the Big Ten and others. Try taking a bus from Minneapolis to Columbus. And that's a conference that had teams traveling around the Midwest in the 19th century.

[NJRedman]

Bill, you didn't use Hawaii you used the WAC which Hawaii isn't a part of. They are in the Big West which is almost exclusively in CA.

The WAC is only in existence as a last resort conference. No team WANTS to be there doing what they are doing. It's a matter of survival for them. We are not even close to that level of desperation.

We don't need Gonzaga, thats the big point you are missing. We are fine with or without them. They need us way more than we need them.

[Bill Marsh]

Bill, you didn't use Hawaii you used the WAC which Hawaii isn't a part of. They are in the Big West which is almost exclusively in CA.

The WAC is only in existence as a last resort conference. No team WANTS to be there doing what they are doing. It's a matter of survival for them. We are not even close to that level of desperation.

We don't need Gonzaga, thats the big point you are missing. We are fine with or without them. They need us way more than we need them.

Sorry about Hawaii. I had to write that post twice because the site dropped me because the draft sat there too long during an interruption - an annoying feature of this site. I have to re-register every time I come on. Do you? I had meant to include Hawaii when I re-wrote my post but I obviously didn't. My apologies. Thanks too for the correction on their conference. I thought I had messed that up but didn't have time to check it due to other obligations.

Last resort conference or not, 2 other conferences are dealing with similar distances. My point was that it's doable regardless of the motivation for doing it.

I'm not suggesting that we're desperate. Go back to my post that started this thread. Mark Few is dropping hints that Gonzaga is exploring other options for conference affiliation. I'm guessing that they're talking with the AAC. I may be wrong. But if I'm right and the AAC is thinking of adding Gonzaga and VCU in addition to Wichita State, then the Big East is faced with a challenge. How does the Big East respond? Sit pat and say we're fine? Or make a move to block the AAC from emerging as another power basketball conference?

It's a choice, not a necessity. But it sure is an interesting choice.

[gtmoBlue]

The WAC is only in existence as a last resort conference. No team WANTS to be there doing what they are doing. It's a matter of survival for them. We are not even close to that level of desperation.

We don't need Gonzaga, thats the big point you are missing. We are fine with or without them. They need us way more than we need them.

Excellent ongoing discussions. I am loving this. Great cogent argument Bill. Excellent rebuttals by most, including NJRedman. Loving this.

Jersey (NJR), you hit the nail on the head, though in a rebuttal.

The Big East is not desperate. We (the conference) are not looking to act out of Necessity, but by being forward thinking - forward looking. The BE should expand now, while the fires are hot, and look to add 2 candidates that meet the majority of our criteria. Gonzaga is the current Best Fit of all the available candidates and should be offered immediately. I would also add 1 team with future potential (from the possible reemergent group) to prop up the middle (Thanks JPSchmack) in the meantime, while we wait for the future Football Five shakeup to cause a few of their ilk to get disenchanted with the football powers.

FF Shakeout future candidates: Syracuse, Notre Dame, WF, Vandy, Duke, B1G, B12, etc.
Possible Re-emergent future candidates (alphabetically): Duquesne, Holy Cross, Loyola Chicago, St. Bonaventure, St. Louis, etc.)

Take 2 good candidates now...go to 12 and hold. Wait for the next round of FF earthquakes and see who pops out...(B12, ACC, SEC, B10?) taking 2 of the best available from the fallout.

Gonzaga meets the criteria and has sustained success for aprox. 15-20 years. They are the only show in the far NW and have shown they can withstand a minor falloff period.

Choose the best potential candidate within the poss. re-emergent group. The financial windfall achieved in being accepted to the BE will be a boon to aid their re-emergence, their recruiting, and their status across the board - See Creighton, Butler, less so Xavier.

Now is an excellent time to strike...as we can cherry pick to our advantage, then wait for the next football shakeup.

[NJRedman]

The WAC is only in existence as a last resort conference. No team WANTS to be there doing what they are doing. It's a matter of survival for them. We are not even close to that level of desperation.

We don't need Gonzaga, thats the big point you are missing. We are fine with or without them. They need us way more than we need them.

Excellent ongoing discussions. I am loving this. Great cogent argument Bill. Excellent rebuttals by most, including NJRedman. Loving this.

Jersey (NJR), you hit the nail on the head, though in a rebuttal.

The Big East is not desperate. We (the conference) is not looking to act out of Necessity, but by being forward thinking - forward looking. The BE should expand now, while the fires are hot, and look to add 2 candidates that meet the majority of our criteria. Gonzaga is the current Best Fit of all the available candidates and should be offered immediately. I would also add 1 team with future potential (from the possible reemergent group) to prop up the middle (Thanks JPSchmack) in the meantime, while we wait for the future Football Five shakeup to cause a few of their ilk to get disenchanted with the football powers.

FF Shakeout future candidates: Syracuse, Notre Dame, WF, Vandy, Duke, B1G, B12, etc.
Possible Re-emergent future candidates (alphabetically): Duquesne, Holy Cross, Loyola Chicago, St. Bonaventure, St. Louis, etc.)

Take 2 good candidates now...go to 12 and hold. Wait for the next round of FF earthquakes and see who pops out...(B12, ACC, SEC, B10?) taking 2 of the best available from the fallout.

Gonzaga meets the criteria and has sustained success for aprox. 15-20 years. They are the only show in the far NW and have shown they can withstand a minor falloff period.

Choose the best potential candidate within the poss. re-emergent group. The financial windfall achieved in being accepted to the BE will be a boon to aid their re-emergence, their recruiting, and their status across the board - See Creighton, Butler, less so Xavier.

Now is an excellent time to strike...as we can cherry pick to our advantage, then wait for the next football shakeup.

All of Gonzaga's success has been under Few. He has probably another 10 years at the school if he doesn't leave early. Not a guarantee they will stay as good post Few. Also playing much stiffer competition in conference will lead to less 1 loss regular seasons and as we seen with our others schools this season the grind that is the BE can take. The grind will be even worse for them with all the cross country flights.

[NJRedman]

Bill, you didn't use Hawaii you used the WAC which Hawaii isn't a part of. They are in the Big West which is almost exclusively in CA.

The WAC is only in existence as a last resort conference. No team WANTS to be there doing what they are doing. It's a matter of survival for them. We are not even close to that level of desperation.

We don't need Gonzaga, thats the big point you are missing. We are fine with or without them. They need us way more than we need them.

Sorry about Hawaii. I had to write that post twice because the site dropped me because the draft sat there too long during an interruption - an annoying feature of this site. I have to re-register every time I come on. Do you? I had meant to include Hawaii when I re-wrote my post but I obviously didn't. My apologies. Thanks too for the correction on their conference. I thought I had messed that up but didn't have time to check it due to other obligations.

Last resort conference or not, 2 other conferences are dealing with similar distances. My point was that it's doable regardless of the motivation for doing it.

I'm not suggesting that we're desperate. Go back to my post that started this thread. Mark Few is dropping hints that Gonzaga is exploring other options for conference affiliation. I'm guessing that they're talking with the AAC. I may be wrong. But if I'm right and the AAC is thinking of adding Gonzaga and VCU in addition to Wichita State, then the Big East is faced with a challenge. How does the Big East respond? Sit pat and say we're fine? Or make a move to block the AAC from emerging as another power basketball conference?

It's a choice, not a necessity. But it sure is an interesting choice.

I've had some sign on issues that have mostly been remedied by using the www. in front of the web address.

Doable and worth doing aren't the same thing. It's doable to put a nail through my foot but it's not really worth doing. haha

Okay bad analogy, it's doable to take the long way to work. I get to where i'm going, but over time i'm using more gas and putting more miles on my car and I end up spending more money than I have to.

[TBC Alum]

All of Gonzaga's success has been under Few. He has probably another 10 years at the school if he doesn't leave early. Not a guarantee they will stay as good post Few.

There's no guarantee either way. In fact, an argument could be made that a move to a stronger basketball conference would improve their long-term stability. For example, recruiting is improved for the new programs.

Also playing much stiffer competition in conference will lead to less 1 loss regular seasons and as we seen with our others schools this season the grind that is the BE can take. The grind will be even worse for them with all the cross country flights.

That's their problem, not the problem of the conference. They know what would be involved and have to weigh that in their assessment.

[Bill Marsh]

Excellent ongoing discussions. I am loving this. Great cogent argument Bill. Excellent rebuttals by most, including NJRedman. Loving this.

Jersey (NJR), you hit the nail on the head, though in a rebuttal.

The Big East is not desperate. We (the conference) is not looking to act out of Necessity, but by being forward thinking - forward looking. The BE should expand now, while the fires are hot, and look to add 2 candidates that meet the majority of our criteria. Gonzaga is the current Best Fit of all the available candidates and should be offered immediately. I would also add 1 team with future potential (from the possible reemergent group) to prop up the middle (Thanks JPSchmack) in the meantime, while we wait for the future Football Five shakeup to cause a few of their ilk to get disenchanted with the football powers.

FF Shakeout future candidates: Syracuse, Notre Dame, WF, Vandy, Duke, B1G, B12, etc.
Possible Re-emergent future candidates (alphabetically): Duquesne, Holy Cross, Loyola Chicago, St. Bonaventure, St. Louis, etc.)

Take 2 good candidates now...go to 12 and hold. Wait for the next round of FF earthquakes and see who pops out...(B12, ACC, SEC, B10?) taking 2 of the best available from the fallout.

Gonzaga meets the criteria and has sustained success for aprox. 15-20 years. They are the only show in the far NW and have shown they can withstand a minor falloff period.

Choose the best potential candidate within the poss. re-emergent group. The financial windfall achieved in being accepted to the BE will be a boon to aid their re-emergence, their recruiting, and their status across the board - See Creighton, Butler, less so Xavier.

Now is an excellent time to strike...as we can cherry pick to our advantage, then wait for the next football shakeup.

All of Gonzaga's success has been under Few.

Not quite. Gonzaga won 4 conference championships under 2 different coaches in 6 years and went to the Elite 8 in the last of those years before Few took over. The foundation for the program was laid by those who came before him. He inherited a very healthy program when he became head coach.

He has probably another 10 years at the school if he doesn't leave early.

Neither of us has any idea how long he'll be at the helm. But he's only 53 and there's no reason why he can't stay there another 15-20 years if he wants to. He's been on the coaching staff there for 28 years, his entire coaching career. He's already turned down numerous other offers and has repeatedly said that there's no place else in the world he'd rather live. He's a native of the Pacific Northwest. There's probably not a better bet in all of college coaching for a coach to stay in his current job long term.

Not a guarantee they will stay as good post Few. Also playing much stiffer competition in conference will lead to less 1 loss regular seasons and as we seen with our others schools this season the grind that is the BE can take. The grind will be even worse for them with all the cross country flights.

Agree. OTOH, the improved SOS will enhance their credentials and the higher level of competition will better prepare them for the postseason.

Good point about the rigors of competition and the grind of travel wearing them down. We'd have to see how they manage it. They currently travel long distances in the WCC as most western teams do. Perhaps they'd adopt the Syracuse philosophy and play almost all of their pre-conference games at home instead of traveling a lot in the pre-conference season as they do now in an effort to boost their SOS. The other thing that would be smart for them to do would be to get the conference to schedule as many of their East Coast road games as possible in December & January during intercession. They could pick up 3-4 road games on one long East Coast trip by doing that. The road trips to Omaha and the Chicago area wouldn't be nearly so long.

[Make Your Bones]

Omaha is easier to fly into than Spokane? I don't have any experience with either. But I do know that Spokane has an international airport and Omaha does not. So what makes one easier than the other? Regardless, the way to do this would be via charter, which makes ease of airport access irrelevant.

Things I learn: Omaha actually has direct flights to 4 of the C7's cities (including both LGA for SJU and EWR for SH). They don't have Providence, Phila (you're missing out, guys), or Milwaukee (surprising). No Cincy or Indy either. Spokane has Chicago & that's it. Omaha has more overall. Not sure why Spokane is "int'l". Obviously, none of this matters to basketball players on charters, but (1) impacts fan travel and (2) non-revenue sports may fly commercial.

http://www.flyoma.com/images/oma_non_2017.pdf
http://spokaneairports.net/non-stop/

On another note, would we forget about geography and lack of history pre-Few if they win their next two games? If UConn came around, we could have 3/4 last champs!

[Edrick]

Gonzaga is never going to be in the Big East. No amount of stumping is going to change that. They are a fine program. Its too bad they are two time zones outside of the footprint. Let the poor horse rest in peace.