Add Dayton and VCU

[jaxalum]

Villanova is still competing against Temple.

I'd take it a step further and say Nova is competing not only with local schools, but also Seton Hall, Georgetown, Providence, etc.

And I would take it a step farther than that by saying that the better programs in the Big East not only compete with one another for talented recruits but also compete with the better programs in the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Big 12, and PAC 12 because of our consistent high ranking among the top 3-6 conferences in the Country. Any time we would elevate a program from a lesser Conference that has not already achieved upper-level relevance and respect nationally (like UConn has), we create another recruiting stumbling block for ourselves by allowing them to share our Conference's well-known name and respect. So by somehow luring UConn back to the Big East (perhaps to stop the financial bleeding due to its expensive BCS-level football program), we gain even greater respect as a Conference without ceding a recruiting advantage to a program that had not already established itself as a real "Player" in a top-level Conference as UConn did consistently in the old Big East. All that PLUS we could retain the Conference Round-Robin nature of our Conference Schedule.

That's extrmely well said. I hear other posters saying that we still end up competing with one another in recruiting (no conference monopoly areas). Of course you will. The Big East is a national conference, and from time to time , you will bump up against a fellow conference member in recruiting. i.e. X lost Dylan Painter after leading for him, but his dream school was Nova. We were supposedly ahead with Jermaine Samuals until we nabbed Paul Scruggs. I know we recruited both Myles Cale, and especially Myles Powell against Seton Hall, the Hall nabbbing both (Powell has already shown flashes this year, and Cale can play almost anywhere on the court). But, by far, the amount of players we recruit where another BE team is involved is Butler. We've both won our share. Yea, so lets bring in another school right there to oversaturate the area while simulataneously bringing down the level of product we walk out onto the hardwood.

If we didn't get hit by the injury bug (Creighton and X)...I hate woulda coulda shouldves, we should have easily had 4 teams in the Sweet 16. Nova beats Wisconsin 9/10 times. X fell into that trap last year, playing that one game that you don't play your best, but you hae to gut through it. We both got burnt by the Badgers.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Xavier has very specific areas that they can target for recruiting and expect to have some success.

X/Butler have ABSOLUTE limitations as to who, where, and how they can recruit, and most importantly though, is WHERE they can recruit and expect a modicum of success.

Nonsense. Xavier, Butler, and Dayton all recruit nationally, and have for years.

Xavier 2017 Commitments

Paul Scruggs - Napa, CA
Kentrevious Jones - Macon, GA
Elias Harden - Mableton, GA
Naji Marshall - Greenbelt, VA
Jared Ridder - Springfield, MO

Butler 2017 Commitments

Kyle Young –Massillon, OH
Jerald Butler – Hollywood, FL
Christian David – Saxtons River, VT
Cooper Neese – Cloverdale, IN

Dayton 2017 Commitments

Nahziah Carter – Rochester, NY
McKinley Wright – Champlin, MN
Jordan Pierce – Scotch Plains, NJ
Jordan Davis – Irmo, SC
Kostas Antetokounmpo – Whitefish Bay, WI *
Matej Svoboda – Czech Republic **

* HS Class of 2016 recruit who redshirted 2016-17 season per NCAA clearinghouse ruling. He will be a 19-year old freshman with 4 years of eligibility.
** Amateur who has played the last 3 seasons for CEZ Nymburk (a professional team). He will be a 21-year old freshman with 4 years of eligibility.

[_lh]

It's only your opinion that the Big East doesn't need to add teams now and did need to add them in 2012-13. The fact is that they didn't need to establish themselves as a 10 team league back then. That's as arbitrary a number as 8 or 12. Why did they go to 10 back then instead of simply replacing Notre Dame on the Catholic side of the conference and stay at 8? The same reasons that were convincing to go to 10 can be advanced for going to 12.

No Bill it is not my opinion, it is a fact. The BE needed to expand when they invited XU, Creighton and Butler. How many major 8 team leagues do you know? It was obvious the new league would be 10 to 12 teams. They choose 10 for a variety of reasons and one was that there were no other great additions after XU, Creighton and Butler. That fact has not changed. UD was a crap option then and is a crap option now. There is no reason to expand right now.

[_lh]

But expansion really isn't the issue that needs to be solved. The issue is TV ratings. Adding teams is only one possible solution to the low ratings which will eventually come back to bite us if they don't improve more than they have. And doing nothing makes it more likely that will remain low.

So, forget about expansion, propose solutions to the problem which needs to be solves, which is low ratings. Other options can be considered besides expansion.

The TV ratings are not an issue worth worrying about right now. People are watching TV way differently today than they were 4 years ago and there is no doubt it will be vastly different in another 8 years. We have no idea if any leagues will have TV deal like we know them to be today. We might all be watching games on Twitter or some other form not yet invented.

[_lh]

My point has more to do with posters' objections to Dayton due to their overlap with Xavier, yet at the same time posters are advocating for UConn, which overlaps with Providence and Notre Dame which overlaps with Butler and to some extent with DePaul.

First, UCONN and ND are not options for expansion. UD would join tomorrow if asked.

Second, UD is no UCONN or ND. Both UCONN and ND move the "needle" UD clearly doesn't.

[D West]

My point has more to do with posters' objections to Dayton due to their overlap with Xavier, yet at the same time posters are advocating for UConn, which overlaps with Providence and Notre Dame which overlaps with Butler and to some extent with DePaul.

First, UCONN and ND are not options for expansion. UD would join tomorrow if asked.

Second, UD is no UCONN or ND. Both UCONN and ND move the "needle" UD clearly doesn't.

Bill, tell me why vD doesn't play Wright State if territorial issues aren't an issue? X should consider playing UD 10 years after that Gem City Jam is played again.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Bill, tell me why UD doesn't play Wright State if territorial issues aren't an issue?

Bill - please allow me.

UD is willing to play Wright State in a 'buy' game at UD Arena, but Wright State insists on 'parity of esteem' and an equal number of return games at Wright State. Dayton does not schedule road games in small venues against weak opponents (nor should they).

In 2016-17, Dayton averaged over 13,000 attendance per home game and made the NCAA Tournament for the fourth consecutive year.

Territorial issues have nothing to do with Dayton not playing Wright State. Wright State's perception of themselves does.

[muskienick]

And I would take it a step farther than that by saying that the better programs in the Big East not only compete with one another for talented recruits but also compete with the better programs in the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Big 12, and PAC 12 because of our consistent high ranking among the top 3-6 conferences in the Country. Any time we would elevate a program from a lesser Conference that has not already achieved upper-level relevance and respect nationally (like UConn has), we create another recruiting stumbling block for ourselves by allowing them to share our Conference's well-known name and respect. So by somehow luring UConn back to the Big East (perhaps to stop the financial bleeding due to its expensive BCS-level football program), we gain even greater respect as a Conference without ceding a recruiting advantage to a program that had not already established itself as a real "Player" in a top-level Conference as UConn did consistently in the old Big East. All that PLUS we could retain the Conference Round-Robin nature of our Conference Schedule.

I am curious, would you be ok if Cinci comes back to the Big East?

Not to the same degree as I would like UConn to become a member. And the reason I feel that way has nothing to do with recruiting. UC never established itself as one of the elite of the Big East like UConn did. That is the difference. We already have some recruting battles with the Bearcats (Jared Cumberland, for example), so that wouldn't be an issue any more than it is now. UC wouldn't "Move the needle" nationally like UConn would, nor would they likely sell their allotment of tickets to MSG for the BET. With UConn, we would have it all.

[Savannah Jay]

I'm pretty sure it was about 90% because of Creighton's connections to MU and our push to bring you guys in. Don't get me wrong, the attendance and good regular season success I'm sure helped you guys but I'm pretty sure we put you guys on the table and sealed the deal for you.

Creighton had a generational player when the league really needed positive exposure.

Having Doug certainly helped put Creighton on the national stage in a BIG way; however, he had not even decided if he was coming back for his senior year when Creighton was invited to join the Big East. I am sure the conference was almost as happy as Creighton fans when he did decide to come back.

[Bill Marsh]

Well i guess jaxalum has sealed the business case closed for a conference to consider schools in close proximity. The ACC might want to reconsider the whole Tobacco Road notion.

Yeah, I've never quite understood the whole territorial thing. Proximity breed great rivalries. As you say, Duke and Carolina. NC State has also won a NC in basketball in the modern era in that same market. Alabama and Auburn have done it in football. Michigan and Michigan State in basketball. Kentucky and Louisville are in different conferences but have thrived in close proximity with both winning NCs. Penn State and Pitt in football when both were Eastern independents. Miami and Florida in football. Georgetown and Maryland are practically next door, but both have won NCs in the modern era albeit from different conferences.

It seems to me that the rivalries make the interest in the market more intense, increases interest in general, and creates benefits for both programs. Just my take.

First off Bill,

Who's your team? You've conveniently never let us in on that little factoid.

Providence. You missed that conversation. Why do you ask? What difference does it make?

Secondly, your transparency towards EVERYTHING being positive towards Daytons inclusion is, well, you don't even try to hide it.

Nope. I've pointed out the positives for a Dayton candidacy in rebuttal to to posters who paint EVERYTHING negative about Dayton. In a balanced discussion of this topic, we would be looking at both pros and cons about Dayton. They are a legitimate candidate. I am not in favor of adding them at this time. The only new member I would add is Gonzaga.

Proximity is everything and you just fell into your own huge f#cking bear trap by bringing into the discussion the Research Triangle schools.

You're cursing at me over a discussion about college basketball? Something's wrong. I'm done. It's all good. Have a nice day.

2/3 are the bluest of the blue bloods, (Duke and NC) while NC State has a national championship on their resume. Xavier has very specific areas that they can target for recruiting and expect to have some success. X/Butler have ABSOLUTE limitatons as to who, where, and how they can recruit, and most importantly though, is WHERE they can recruit and expect a modicum of success. Bill/BEwannabe, guess where North Carolina and Dukes recruitng areas expand to, and NC State, to a lesser extent. The WHOLE F#CKING WORLD. These institutions could literally be built on top of, connectd to one another, and still have their pick of any recruit/ whoever the F#ck they wanted.....because proximity became a non factor when they achieved their status/a brand that transcends everything.....including PROXIMITY.

Yeah, I've never quite understood the whole territorial thing. Proximity breed great rivalries

I think you do Bill. First off:

-Alabama and Auburn are over 3hrs apart. And who are the other teams they have to compete with for recruits in that state?

-Michigan and MIch St have been playing for over 115 years. The first Model T prototype didnt come out until 1908. Do you see where I'm going with this? LACK OF TEAMS. You play whoever was close enough to you for lack of traveling options.

Kentucky and Louisville: see Blue Blood/NC/Duke/nC State.....add on to the fact that that there are no other teams in the state aka lack of competition.

Kentucky and Louisville are in different conferences but have thrived in close proximity with both winning NCs. Penn State and Pitt in football when both were Eastern independents. Miami and Florida in football. Georgetown and Maryland are practically next door, but both have won NCs in the modern era albeit from different conferences.

It seems to me that the rivalries make the interest in the market more intense, increases interest in general, and creates benefits for both programs. Just my take

Your entire argument after that completely falls to sh#t as this debate is about CONFERENCE......ADDING, NOT ADDING. Everything thats underlined in your last sentence can be accomplished without adding the team to the CONFERENCE......RIGHT????? Like Louisville and Kentucky, while not in the same conference have a great rivalry, the interest in the market is more intense, interest increases in general, YET THEY ARE IN DIFFERENT CONFERENCES.

and creates benefits for both programs

This is where you absolutely just don't get it. In no way, shape, or form, will this benefit Xavier/Butler. It will do exaclty the opposite. Bill, when did bringing in another competitve entity DIRECTLY onto your turf, providing them with the same benefits this conference affiliation provides, that you worked your tail off to get ahead, CREATE BENEFITS FOR BOTH PROGRAMS????? Seriously, WTF kind of reasoning is that?? You've added another recruiting/academic/branding entity 45 minutes away in a state that is already saturated with the likes of UC, UD, Ohio St, and Lexington only a couple hours away.

Bill, again, who is your team? And how would you feel if the conference expanded and that team happened to be 45 mintes away? No BS mode. If you possessed a single bone, instinct, proclivity, or knack of competitiveness in your body, you'd be raising hell.

This is pure and simple competition, and Xavier, as a whole, will do everything it can to protect it's interests, as EVERY other team on this board would do as well if put in a similar situation. I love being apart of this conference, and I'd be raising the same type of hell if this scenario was playing out with another conference member.

Do you get the territorial thing now?