Add Dayton and VCU

[Bill Marsh]

Maybe and if they did, XU fans would support them but UCONN and ND would be huge additions that would "move the needle" where UD moves nothing.

Dayton would be comparable to Creighton when they were added. Rabid fan base even though neither moves the needle nationally.

A HUGE difference is that the BE needed to add teams when they invited XU, Creighton and Butler. NOW they don't so there is no need to add the likes of UD, VCU, Richmond, URI, GW, St. Bonaventure, SLU or any other A10 or Valley team to the BE.

The BE is in great shape with 10. They only programs worth adding would be the programs I listed if they somehow become available or relocate to Missouri from Washington in Gonzaga's case.

It's only your opinion that the Big East doesn't need to add teams now and did need to add them in 2012-13. The fact is that they didn't need to establish themselves as a 10 team league back then. That's as arbitrary a number as 8 or 12. Why did they go to 10 back then instead of simply replacing Notre Dame on the Catholic side of the conference and stay at 8? The same reasons that were convincing to go to 10 can be advanced for going to 12.

But expansion really isn't the issue that needs to be solved. The issue is TV ratings. Adding teams is only one possible solution to the low ratings which will eventually come back to bite us if they don't improve more than they have. And doing nothing makes it more likely that will remain low.

So, forget about expansion, propose solutions to the problem which needs to be solves, which is low ratings. Other options can be considered besides expansion.

[Savannah Jay]

I'm pretty sure it was about 90% because of Creighton's connections to MU and our push to bring you guys in. Don't get me wrong, the attendance and good regular season success I'm sure helped you guys but I'm pretty sure we put you guys on the table and sealed the deal for you.

Having Fr. Lannon, Creighton's president at the time, sitting on MU's board of directors certainly didn't hurt. Nor did it hurt that he was good friends with Fr. Pilarz. In fact, Lannon first heard about the possibility of a the C7 forming the new Big East during Marquette's board meeting in Dec 2012 and immediately took Fr. Pilarz aside and expressed interest.

Fr. Lannon was also good friends with DePaul's president, Dennis Holtschneider, because they got their doctorate together. It was Holtschneider that extended the invite to Creighton. Fr. Lannon was a great ambassador and continuously reached out to C7 presidents over the course of the spring, 2013.

After the offer was extended, C7 presidents cited Creighton's academic history, athletic facilities, and athletic success as reasons for the invite. The facilities include an NBA caliber arena, an almost brand new (when the conference was formed) arena specifically for women's basketball and volleyball, TD Ameritrade Park for baseball (and Creighton is host of the College World Series every year), and the men's basketball championship center that was under construction. I do not know the specifics of other schools' facilities but these would be hard for any of Creighton's "competitors" for Big East membership to match. Combine that with academic reputation and, while I am sure MU connections helped, Creighton's bid to join the conference stood well on its own.

[DudeAnon]

Maybe just add Dayton. VCU just lost their head coach and seems to be heading to rebuild mode.


Just a reminder. We are averaging 1 Sweet 16 team a year? Is that good enough?

[kayako]

I'm pretty sure it was about 90% because of Creighton's connections to MU and our push to bring you guys in. Don't get me wrong, the attendance and good regular season success I'm sure helped you guys but I'm pretty sure we put you guys on the table and sealed the deal for you.

Creighton had a generational player when the league really needed positive exposure.

[kayako]

Villanova is still competing against Temple.

I'd take it a step further and say Nova is competing not only with local schools, but also Seton Hall, Georgetown, Providence, etc.

[Hoopfan]

I'm pretty sure it was about 90% because of Creighton's connections to MU and our push to bring you guys in. Don't get me wrong, the attendance and good regular season success I'm sure helped you guys but I'm pretty sure we put you guys on the table and sealed the deal for you.

Having Fr. Lannon, Creighton's president at the time, sitting on MU's board of directors certainly didn't hurt. Nor did it hurt that he was good friends with Fr. Pilarz. In fact, Lannon first heard about the possibility of a the C7 forming the new Big East during Marquette's board meeting in Dec 2012 and immediately took Fr. Pilarz aside and expressed interest.

Fr. Lannon was also good friends with DePaul's president, Dennis Holtschneider, because they got their doctorate together. It was Holtschneider that extended the invite to Creighton. Fr. Lannon was a great ambassador and continuously reached out to C7 presidents over the course of the spring, 2013.

After the offer was extended, C7 presidents cited Creighton's academic history, athletic facilities, and athletic success as reasons for the invite. The facilities include an NBA caliber arena, an almost brand new (when the conference was formed) arena specifically for women's basketball and volleyball, TD Ameritrade Park for baseball (and Creighton is host of the College World Series every year), and the men's basketball championship center that was under construction. I do not know the specifics of other schools' facilities but these would be hard for any of Creighton's "competitors" for Big East membership to match. Combine that with academic reputation and, while I am sure MU connections helped, Creighton's bid to join the conference stood well on its own.

It's time to take off the bluejay glasses and expand your horizons about other schools. Those are all great things but they are not specific to just Creighton.

[jaxalum]

Well i guess jaxalum has sealed the business case closed for a conference to consider schools in close proximity. The ACC might want to reconsider the whole Tobacco Road notion.

Yeah, I've never quite understood the whole territorial thing. Proximity breed great rivalries. As you say, Duke and Carolina. NC State has also won a NC in basketball in the modern era in that same market. Alabama and Auburn have done it in football. Michigan and Michigan State in basketball. Kentucky and Louisville are in different conferences but have thrived in close proximity with both winning NCs. Penn State and Pitt in football when both were Eastern independents. Miami and Florida in football. Georgetown and Maryland are practically next door, but both have won NCs in the modern era albeit from different conferences.

It seems to me that the rivalries make the interest in the market more intense, increases interest in general, and creates benefits for both programs. Just my take.

First off Bill,

Who's your team? You've conveniently never let us in on that little factoid. Secondly, your transparency towards EVERYTHING being positive towards Daytons inclusion is, well, you don't even try to hide it.

Proximity is everything and you just fell into your own huge f#cking bear trap by bringing into the discussion the Research Triangle schools. 2/3 are the bluest of the blue bloods, (Duke and NC) while NC State has a national championship on their resume. Xavier has very specific areas that they can target for recruiting and expect to have some success. X/Butler have ABSOLUTE limitatons as to who, where, and how they can recruit, and most importantly though, is WHERE they can recruit and expect a modicum of success. Bill/BEwannabe, guess where North Carolina and Dukes recruitng areas expand to, and NC State, to a lesser extent. The WHOLE F#CKING WORLD. These institutions could literally be built on top of, connectd to one another, and still have their pick of any recruit/ whoever the F#ck they wanted.....because proximity became a non factor when they achieved their status/a brand that transcends everything.....including PROXIMITY.

Yeah, I've never quite understood the whole territorial thing. Proximity breed great rivalries

I think you do Bill. First off:

-Alabama and Auburn are over 3hrs apart. And who are the other teams they have to compete with for recruits in that state?

-Michigan and MIch St have been playing for over 115 years. The first Model T prototype didnt come out until 1908. Do you see where I'm going with this? LACK OF TEAMS. You play whoever was close enough to you for lack of traveling options.

Kentucky and Louisville: see Blue Blood/NC/Duke/nC State.....add on to the fact that that there are no other teams in the state aka lack of competition.

Kentucky and Louisville are in different conferences but have thrived in close proximity with both winning NCs. Penn State and Pitt in football when both were Eastern independents. Miami and Florida in football. Georgetown and Maryland are practically next door, but both have won NCs in the modern era albeit from different conferences.

It seems to me that the rivalries make the interest in the market more intense, increases interest in general, and creates benefits for both programs. Just my take

Your entire argument after that completely falls to sh#t as this debate is about CONFERENCE......ADDING, NOT ADDING. Everything thats underlined in your last sentence can be accomplished without adding the team to the CONFERENCE......RIGHT????? Like Louisville and Kentucky, while not in the same conference have a great rivalry, the interest in the market is more intense, interest increases in general, YET THEY ARE IN DIFFERENT CONFERENCES.

and creates benefits for both programs

This is where you absolutely just don't get it. In no way, shape, or form, will this benefit Xavier/Butler. It will do exaclty the opposite. Bill, when did bringing in another competitve entity DIRECTLY onto your turf, providing them with the same benefits this conference affiliation provides, that you worked your tail off to get ahead, CREATE BENEFITS FOR BOTH PROGRAMS????? Seriously, WTF kind of reasoning is that?? You've added another recruiting/academic/branding entity 45 minutes away in a state that is already saturated with the likes of UC, UD, Ohio St, and Lexington only a couple hours away.

Bill, again, who is your team? And how would you feel if the conference expanded and that team happened to be 45 mintes away? No BS mode. If you possessed a single bone, instinct, proclivity, or knack of competitiveness in your body, you'd be raising hell.

This is pure and simple competition, and Xavier, as a whole, will do everything it can to protect it's interests, as EVERY other team on this board would do as well if put in a similar situation. I love being apart of this conference, and I'd be raising the same type of hell if this scenario was playing out with another conference member.

Do you get the territorial thing now?

[muskienick]

Villanova is still competing against Temple.

I'd take it a step further and say Nova is competing not only with local schools, but also Seton Hall, Georgetown, Providence, etc.

And I would take it a step farther than that by saying that the better programs in the Big East not only compete with one another for talented recruits but also compete with the better programs in the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Big 12, and PAC 12 because of our consistent high ranking among the top 3-6 conferences in the Country. Any time we would elevate a program from a lesser Conference that has not already achieved upper-level relevance and respect nationally (like UConn has), we create another recruiting stumbling block for ourselves by allowing them to share our Conference's well-known name and respect. So by somehow luring UConn back to the Big East (perhaps to stop the financial bleeding due to its expensive BCS-level football program), we gain even greater respect as a Conference without ceding a recruiting advantage to a program that had not already established itself as a real "Player" in a top-level Conference as UConn did consistently in the old Big East. All that PLUS we could retain the Conference Round-Robin nature of our Conference Schedule.

[kayako]

And I would take it a step farther than that by saying that the better programs in the Big East not only compete with one another for talented recruits but also compete with the better programs in the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Big 12, and PAC 12 because of our consistent high ranking among the top 3-6 conferences in the Country. Any time we would elevate a program from a lesser Conference that has not already achieved upper-level relevance and respect nationally (like UConn has), we create another recruiting stumbling block for ourselves by allowing them to share our Conference's well-known name and respect. So by somehow luring UConn back to the Big East (perhaps to stop the financial bleeding due to its expensive BCS-level football program), we gain even greater respect as a Conference without ceding a recruiting advantage to a program that had not already established itself as a real "Player" in a top-level Conference as UConn did consistently in the old Big East. All that PLUS we could retain the Conference Round-Robin nature of our Conference Schedule.

I am curious, would you be ok if Cinci comes back to the Big East?

[DudeAnon]

And I would take it a step farther than that by saying that the better programs in the Big East not only compete with one another for talented recruits but also compete with the better programs in the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Big 12, and PAC 12 because of our consistent high ranking among the top 3-6 conferences in the Country. Any time we would elevate a program from a lesser Conference that has not already achieved upper-level relevance and respect nationally (like UConn has), we create another recruiting stumbling block for ourselves by allowing them to share our Conference's well-known name and respect. So by somehow luring UConn back to the Big East (perhaps to stop the financial bleeding due to its expensive BCS-level football program), we gain even greater respect as a Conference without ceding a recruiting advantage to a program that had not already established itself as a real "Player" in a top-level Conference as UConn did consistently in the old Big East. All that PLUS we could retain the Conference Round-Robin nature of our Conference Schedule.

I am curious, would you be ok if Cinci comes back to the Big East?

I'm down for it. I think we could pull it off too, UC has to hate the AAC for basketball.