Non-Big East Conference Realignment Thread v. 2017

[Dave]

Before I moved south, I saw a few Union matches at PPL. It was nice; I also saw the police barricades making sure we took the proper route back onto the highway. I used to work at the Boeing plant just up the river, and was back there this summer for work; the area didn't make some magical improvement while I've been gone. I lived in the Philly area for 10 years...that area is ghetto (and I lived in some borderline areas while I was there). Plus, if I remember correctly PPL wasn't up to FBS specs...so someone (Nova) would have to pay to bring it up to spec. All for what, to play big time rivals such as Kent State, Central Michigan, and NIU? You say that it would somehow make us more money...which would probably be wiped by the extra scholarships, greater travel, fees to lease PPL. Nova gets nothing out of a move to FBS, I don't even know why it is being discussed.

"It was nice". Yes, it is nice. The area is not Radnor Township for sure. The surrounding area is gritty. Are you afraid of going to games at Wells Fargo? The Linc?

PPL/Talon is up to FBS specs. That's another misperception. Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers used it as an excuse to withdraw the BCS invitation, but it wasn't a real issue. If Nova had just accepted the invite without fiddling with it for 6 months before responding it would not have been an issue. PPL/Talon seats 18,500 as is and expansion is planned, with or without Nova. The FBS requirment is 15,000 average.

For competition, yes I'd rather play teams like UConn, Temple, Cincy, Marshall, ODU over teams like Albany, Stony Brook, and Elon. Temple has brought in Notre Dame and Penn State to play in the Linc. You may be too young to remember when Temple's football program wasn't near the stature of Villanova.

The football program and Nova fans deserve better. This isn't swimming. This is football.

[NJRedman]

Before I moved south, I saw a few Union matches at PPL. It was nice; I also saw the police barricades making sure we took the proper route back onto the highway. I used to work at the Boeing plant just up the river, and was back there this summer for work; the area didn't make some magical improvement while I've been gone. I lived in the Philly area for 10 years...that area is ghetto (and I lived in some borderline areas while I was there). Plus, if I remember correctly PPL wasn't up to FBS specs...so someone (Nova) would have to pay to bring it up to spec. All for what, to play big time rivals such as Kent State, Central Michigan, and NIU? You say that it would somehow make us more money...which would probably be wiped by the extra scholarships, greater travel, fees to lease PPL. Nova gets nothing out of a move to FBS, I don't even know why it is being discussed.

"It was nice". Yes, it is nice. The area is not Radnor Township for sure. The surrounding area is gritty. Are you afraid of going to games at Wells Fargo? The Linc?

PPL/Talon is up to FBS specs. That's another misperception. Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers used it as an excuse to withdraw the BCS invitation, but it wasn't a real issue. If Nova had just accepted the invite without fiddling with it for 6 months before responding it would not have been an issue. PPL/Talon seats 18,500 as is and expansion is planned, with or without Nova. The FBS requirment is 15,000 average.

For competition, yes I'd rather play teams like UConn, Temple, Cincy, Marshall, ODU over teams like Albany, Stony Brook, and Elon. Temple has brought in Notre Dame and Penn State to play in the Linc. You may be too young to remember when Temple's football program wasn't near the stature of Villanova.

The football program and Nova fans deserve better. This isn't swimming. This is football.

So are you advocating to leave the Big East? Why would the MAC take a Villanova FB only? Why would any FBS conference take Villanova FB only? Their value is in it's BBall program.

[DeltaV]

Before I moved south, I saw a few Union matches at PPL. It was nice; I also saw the police barricades making sure we took the proper route back onto the highway. I used to work at the Boeing plant just up the river, and was back there this summer for work; the area didn't make some magical improvement while I've been gone. I lived in the Philly area for 10 years...that area is ghetto (and I lived in some borderline areas while I was there). Plus, if I remember correctly PPL wasn't up to FBS specs...so someone (Nova) would have to pay to bring it up to spec. All for what, to play big time rivals such as Kent State, Central Michigan, and NIU? You say that it would somehow make us more money...which would probably be wiped by the extra scholarships, greater travel, fees to lease PPL. Nova gets nothing out of a move to FBS, I don't even know why it is being discussed.

"It was nice". Yes, it is nice. The area is not Radnor Township for sure. The surrounding area is gritty. Are you afraid of going to games at Wells Fargo? The Linc?

PPL/Talon is up to FBS specs. That's another misperception. Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers used it as an excuse to withdraw the BCS invitation, but it wasn't a real issue. If Nova had just accepted the invite without fiddling with it for 6 months before responding it would not have been an issue. PPL/Talon seats 18,500 as is and expansion is planned, with or without Nova. The FBS requirment is 15,000 average.

For competition, yes I'd rather play teams like UConn, Temple, Cincy, Marshall, ODU over teams like Albany, Stony Brook, and Elon. Temple has brought in Notre Dame and Penn State to play in the Linc. You may be too young to remember when Temple's football program wasn't near the stature of Villanova.

The football program and Nova fans deserve better. This isn't swimming. This is football.

South Philly where the sports complex is located is in a rather nice neighborhood; it is also where the 76ers play. Calling Chester gritty is being gracious at best.

So...the FBS requirement is 15k. Nova averaged 5.5k per home game last year...including a whopping 2,059 at a home playoff game. In 2009, when they won the NCAA championship, they averaged 7k per home game, which dropped to a little over 3k per home game for the two playoff games (it raised to 8.5k per game when they were defending champs in 2010). Villanova Stadium holds 12.5k, so it isn't a capacity problem; you think they'll add 10k fans per game by moving the home games 20 miles away and letting people have a beer and play cornhole before games?

At least when I was a swimmer, my warmups said 'Big East' on them...not A10, Yankee, or whatever minor conference the football team was when I was there. We also knew who to thank for the money to run our team, and while I'm sure he's a very nice guy, it wasn't Coach Talley.

[Dave]

Why would any FBS conference take Villanova FB only? Their value is in it's BBall program.

If you are concerned with value, just worry about the Johnnies contributing to the Big East. Start chasing Xavier, Creighton, and Butler for starters. Thank God we brought them into the conference.

[Dave]

At least when I was a swimmer, my warmups said 'Big East' on them...not A10, Yankee, or whatever minor conference the football team was when I was there.

That's exactly the point. Conference affiliation matters. There is very little interest in FCS level football. So yes, that is one key point, your conference and who you play. We need to improve there.

The other is the tailgating. Beer does matter.

[Dave]

you think they'll add 10k fans per game by moving the home games 20 miles away and letting people have a beer and play cornhole before games?

Nova has played 2 games at PPL. They drew 10,000+ and 14,000+. And this came after the botching of the football invitation.

Yes, Nova could have a respectable program with better competition, games at PPL, and a few beers. Nova needs a plan.

[DeltaV]

you think they'll add 10k fans per game by moving the home games 20 miles away and letting people have a beer and play cornhole before games?

Nova has played 2 games at PPL. They drew 10,000+ and 14,000+. And this came after the botching of the football invitation.

Yes, Nova could have a respectable program with better competition, games at PPL, and a few beers. Nova needs a plan.

Both of those games were against UDel...games which seem to still get over 10k for the games played other years at Villanova Stadium, and 15k-20k for games played at Delaware. More indicative is probably drawing 6,100 this past November when Nova was ranked #9 and James Madison (the eventual national champion) was #6. Top 10 matchup, 6 thousand people. Outside of a few weird alumni (who admittedly must donate a shit ton of money), Nova doesn't care about football. Did you play football?

Sounds to me like UDel should be the one looking at upgrading to FBS, not Nova.

[adoraz]

Why would any FBS conference take Villanova FB only? Their value is in it's BBall program.

If you are concerned with value, just worry about the Johnnies contributing to the Big East. Start chasing Xavier, Creighton, and Butler for starters. Thank God we brought them into the conference.

Way to totally miss the point and get overly defensive.

[twodecks]

1. Villanova's best move (even though I disagreed with it at the time) was to carefully evaluate FBS football. During that waffling period, the other teams moved on and said no to Nova. Thank heavens that happened. The ONLY reason why FBS football was considered at Villanova was to PROTECT the basketball team. ONLY REASON WHATSOEVER. Now that the Big East has been firmly established, that need has disappeared.

2. A Villanova in the AAC for football only would cost Nova more money than their current football situation. Yes, they'd get an incremental $1-2mm in TV revenue, but they'd have to add at least 50 athletic scholarships (go from 58 FCS scholarships to 85 FBS scholarships * 2 for the women). At $60K a pop for those scholarships, that's $3mm in incremental costs, not to mention that FBS teams require far more in terms of support (coaching staff, academic staff, etc.) than FBS schools. Oh, and if you really think Nova fans will come out to watch them play Tulane, ECU, Houston in football - you're crazy. UCONN might do OK, Navy might do OK, but Nova fans aren't coming out for those games at PPL to offset the incremental costs. I think we'd average 12K per game vs. the 6K per games we currently average. At 6K per game at 5 game games that's incremental attendance of 30,000 per year. Say tickets are $30 - that's only incremental revenue of $900K. Add that to the TV deal and it's still money losing.

3. The FAR more likely scenario than Villanova moving up to the FBS level is Villanova DROPPING to the Patriot League level. It's cheaper and VU would be placed with more academically compatible schools in Lehigh, Lafayette, Holy Cross, etc. vs. the hodge podge of state & random private schools in the current league. If Richmond, W&M, and Villanova all jumped to the Patriot League - that would be a very nice outcome for Villanova football

4. The ONLY situation where Villanova would upgrade would be a massive upheaval at the P5 level where the ACC was raided by the B1G and SEC and the ACC came calling. For all the reasons stated elsewhere, this is such a long shot, it's not even worth thinking about. AND at this point in the college hoops landscape, I'm not even sure Villanova would say yes - unless the P5 schools were breaking off from the NCAA for their own tournament

[crussomd]

twodecks, Agree.
There is no scenario where Nova is going to FBS. All of my possibilities involve current FBS programs dropping to FCS if crazy things happen with B1G, PAC and ACC.

Bottom line if premier private schools don't become available we should all stay at 10. We have a great group currently.