Non-Big East Conference Realignment Thread v. 2017

[Dave]

There is no way Villanova is upgrading football at this point unless it was because they were asked to join a power conference. No way we would undertake that cost and risk so we could band together with UCONN and JMU. That is not even in the realm of possibility. Big East is working out great for Nova and I love this league, we aren't leaving unless we were approached by a football 5 conference and they wanted us to upgrade in football. Honestly, as I said in an earlier post I would much rather the bIg east schools all start playing FCS level football and we can play against each other. I would enjoy going to games against other big east schools. Pursuing a FBS championship as a small private university is non-sensiscal. UCONN is having a disastrous time of it as the state flagship school in one of the wealthiest states in the country. And BTW, I have seen scenarios where Texas and Oklahoma go to the PAC or Texas to the PAC and OK to the B1G. What does that do to then projected conferences?

Nova pays $6 to $10M per year for FCS football. It is a guaranteed assured loss. There is not an upside for revenue, and no real TV money available to FCS.

So the real risk is in doing nothing, and eating that loss every year with no upside. Nova already spends near MAC expenditures on its FCS program.

The Big East is a good home for Nova. It just needs to find a home for football.

Pursuing a FBS championship for Nova would be non-sensical, but you can play at that level and build a program without thinking you are going to contend for national championships. But "Pursuing a FBS championship as a small private university is non-sensical" is too broad. At least Notre Dame, Stanford, Miami and TCU think they have a chance. BC, Northwestern, Vandy, Duke, and Wake may also disagree.

UConn no doubt has had misfortunes in realignment. That is why they are in the discussion.

If Texas and OK bolt, the Big 12 will probably pick up Houston and Cincy. That is one of the reasons for the AAC to add 2 and keep UConn football proactively instead of reactively.

[Dave]

UConn will heavily explore joining another league in the offseason: The Huskies have battled injuries this season en route to a 10-12 record, but their overall cache as a program also isn’t quite what it was when they were operating in the old Big East. Kevin Ollie led UConn to a national title in 2014, but the Huskies’ brand still belongs on a bigger stage. Sources have told FanRag Sports that UConn has consistently looked into joining the Big East as a basketball only member as long as it could find another home for its football program.

The scenarios
1 - This is hogwash, and UConn is not considering joining the Big East. Rothstein is full of squat.
2 - There is some actual reporting going on here and UConn is considering the Big East.

IF 2, THEN where does UConn football go. Scenarios
A - Football stays in the AAC. Nova should use the opportunity to gain entry.
B - Another G5. MAC and C-USA seem most obvious, but there are even more possible scenarios.
C - Go Independent.
D - Drop to FCS or drop football. I do not think there is much chance of this.
E - A P5 home for football only. I think dropping football has more of a probability.

[crussomd]

There is no way Villanova is upgrading football at this point unless it was because they were asked to join a power conference. No way we would undertake that cost and risk so we could band together with UCONN and JMU. That is not even in the realm of possibility. Big East is working out great for Nova and I love this league, we aren't leaving unless we were approached by a football 5 conference and they wanted us to upgrade in football. Honestly, as I said in an earlier post I would much rather the bIg east schools all start playing FCS level football and we can play against each other. I would enjoy going to games against other big east schools. Pursuing a FBS championship as a small private university is non-sensiscal. UCONN is having a disastrous time of it as the state flagship school in one of the wealthiest states in the country. And BTW, I have seen scenarios where Texas and Oklahoma go to the PAC or Texas to the PAC and OK to the B1G. What does that do to then projected conferences?

Nova pays $6 to $10M per year for FCS football. It is a guaranteed assured loss. There is not an upside for revenue, and no real TV money available to FCS.

So the real risk is in doing nothing, and eating that loss every year with no upside. Nova already spends near MAC expenditures on its FCS program.

The Big East is a good home for Nova. It just needs to find a home for football.

Pursuing a FBS championship for Nova would be non-sensical, but you can play at that level and build a program without thinking you are going to contend for national championships. But "Pursuing a FBS championship as a small private university is non-sensical" is too broad. At least Notre Dame, Stanford, Miami and TCU think they have a chance. BC, Northwestern, Vandy, Duke, and Wake may also disagree.

UConn no doubt has had misfortunes in realignment. That is why they are in the discussion.

If Texas and OK bolt, the Big 12 will probably pick up Houston and Cincy. That is one of the reasons for the AAC to add 2 and keep UConn football proactively instead of reactively.

That first group of schools certainly do not qualify as small private schools (well maybe Miami not sure of their enrollment) but as far as your second list, Yes it is in the realm of possibility for Vandy and Northwestern to one day compete for a title, but that is as much a function of the conference they are in as anything else. BC is permanently dead to me and I'm confident neither they, or Duke or WF are ever winning a national title. We may differ in opinion on having a program without ever competing for a national title. I see no point. It's like starting off every NFL season and you know your team will never win.

Looking at it from your financial point of view in reverse. If Duke or WF downgraded to FCS and joined a conference like the big east, what would the increased TV revenue be for that conference in basketball and what would their cost savings on football be. Would the conference wide benefits of an association of like minded academic schools bring more to the table than just money. Why in that scenario would ND not want in and keep football independent. I love college sports and maybe it is only about money but I view money as a means to an end and the end result I want is the best overall university.

What do you make of rumblings of UNC and UVA to B1G eventually due to academics?

[Dave]

That first group of schools certainly do not qualify as small private schools (well maybe Miami not sure of their enrollment) but as far as your second list, Yes it is in the realm of possibility for Vandy and Northwestern to one day compete for a title, but that is as much a function of the conference they are in as anything else.

Actually, Miami is the only school on that list that is slightly more than 10,000 undergrad. The rest of the list is under 10,000 undergrad

BC is permanently dead to me and I'm confident neither they, or Duke or WF are ever winning a national title. We may differ in opinion on having a program without ever competing for a national title. I see no point. It's like starting off every NFL season and you know your team will never win.

Wake last won the ACC in 2006 (football).

When was the last time DePaul won a conference championship? Which is more possible, Wake winning in ACC football or DePaul in Big East basketball?

Looking at it from your financial point of view in reverse. If Duke or WF downgraded to FCS and joined a conference like the big east, what would the increased TV revenue be for that conference in basketball and what would their cost savings on football be. Would the conference wide benefits of an association of like minded academic schools bring more to the table than just money. Why in that scenario would ND not want in and keep football independent. I love college sports and maybe it is only about money but I view money as a means to an end and the end result I want is the best overall university.

The ACC is worth $25M - $30M a year. Duke or WFU are not downgrading. They would get zero $$$ for FCS football, and the Big East is only a $4M-$5M TV deal for hoops. There is as much concern that the next TV deal will be less as hope that it will be more. (Bring in UConn to strengthen the next TV negotiations).

The ACC also has more to bring to the table academically. More research dollar alliances, etc.

What do you make of rumblings of UNC and UVA to B1G eventually due to academics?

Possible, but a long shot. The ACC measures up pretty well to the B1G. It's certainly possible.

I mean, the B1G went after Rutgers. After that any realignment scenario seems possible.

[Dave]

What do you make of rumblings of UNC and UVA to B1G eventually due to academics?

The ACC also has its Grant of Rights agreement, making a UNC and UVA move more difficult. Still, anything is possible.

[crussomd]

You make lots of fair points. I am still concerned that UCONN is not an institutional fit for the current Big East "Brand" and I worry that if lightning does strike and we are presented with a great opportunity we won't be able to take it.

Now lets repeat, Go Cats

[Dave]

I worry that if lightning does strike and we are presented with a great opportunity we won't be able to take it.

It's always a concern with Nova. Most of their football opportunities and conference alignments have fallen into their laps. Even then they have struggled with them. Nova needs to proactively seek the next path for football, and it is unlikely they have it in them to act.

Repeat is looking tougher. We might be to a 6 man rotation.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Atlantic Coast Conference

The ACC was founded on May 8, 1953 in Greensboro, North Carolina at the Sedgefield Country Club by seven universities located in the South Atlantic States. These seven charter members were: Clemson, Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, North Carolina State, South Carolina, and Wake Forest. Previously members of the Southern Conference, they left partially due to that league's ban on post-season football play.

Previously posted:

The ACC announced it will launch its ESPN-backed network in 2019 with the league and the network agreeing to a 20-year deal and rights extension through the 2035-36 season.

The ACC also extended its conference grant-of-rights deal with each member university through 2035-36. The extended grant of rights makes it virtually impossible financially for any school to leave the league in the next two decades.

The ACC generated $403.1 million in revenue and dispersed $373 million to its 15 member schools - an average of $26.2 million per school per year.
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If we are so lucky that the ACC implodes down the road maybe we can hope to have Duke and Wake fall into our laps.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5796&start=210#p88729

Duke and WF in the ACC as high standard academic private schools stick out like sore thumbs in those conferences.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5796&start=230#p88797

If Duke or WF downgraded to FCS and joined a conference like the big east, what would the increased TV revenue be for that conference in basketball and what would their cost savings on football be.

NEWSFLASH: Duke and Wake Forest will not be leaving the ACC to join the Big East. Try to keep it real, crussomd.

($26.2 million per school per year) x (20 years) = $524,000,000. That's a lot of money for a private university to walk away from, even if they could.

[Dave]

The extended grant of rights makes it virtually impossible financially for any school to leave the league in the next two decades.

As I said before the grant of rights makes a departure more difficult and more unlikely. "Virtually impossible" is an overstatement.

What we know so far is that schools wanting to exit are very willing to litigate and are seldom held to the full exit clause. It is very possible that a court would find the exit clause too restrictive and anti-competitive.

The GOR makes an exit much more difficult, but not virtually impossible.

[GreatDaneAttorney]

Duke, Wake, Boston College, and Miami are all long-term possibilities, but only if there's a major upheaval in the football landscape. There'd have to be major changes driven by the B1G or SEC, lawsuits related to football injuries, paying players market rates that small private schools can no longer afford, and/or a major shift in consumers preferences away from college football (baseball was once America's sport, only to be replaced by football, watch for a possible shift to another sport in the decades to come). But if any of those things happened, the Big East wouldn't just emerge as a stronger power in a vacuum. There would likely be positives and negatives for the Big East, and at that point it's just too difficult to predict what would happen.

The Big East's best chance of growing the league will be to add a member of the MVC, Horizon, A-10, etc. that has seen sustained basketball success (both on the court and financially), and only if that prospective member adds new markets and maintains the Big East's academic standing. As of right now, no school meets that definition, or else the league would have likely already expanded.