Non-Big East Conference Realignment Thread v. 2017

[crussomd]

Hi all, Longtime reader first time poster but I had to register to add to this thread. IMO you are all setting your goals way too low. UCONN who the hell needs them? We don't need a middling academic state school who has delusional dreams of grandeur regarding their football program regardless of how good their basketball program is (was).

I say we stay exactly where we are and if we are so lucky that the ACC implodes down the road maybe we can hope to have Duke and Wake fall into our laps. Maybe ND stays independent in football and joins us in all other sports. If we are going to change the league that is working so great it has to be for some scenario like that. In a scenario like that I would even consider adding an academic superstar school like (hopkins) along with the other 3, even if they don;t currently play D1 basketball.

We should build a brand around all private schools with great academics and great fun to watch basketball. I love college BB but in the end it is about the entire university and we should seek to not only grow the basketball tradition but raise the caliber and reputation of the schools we associate with.

Eventually I would like to see the majority of our schools all play FCS football and compete in the big east against each other for bragging rights. We are never going to compete with the ohio states and alabamas of the world and it is a big waste of time, money and energy to try. But if we all has competitive fcs programs; would i drive down from CT to Nova to see the wildcats play the hoyas for a homecoming football game. Damn straight.

The ACC will not implode. They have won the war.

The competition between the ACC and the Big XII for the 4th position among the power football conferences has been one of the undercovered elements of realignment. The ACC was brilliant in its strategy and outmanuveured the Big XII at every turn.

When realignment began in 2010, the largest major conference was 12 schools. The PAC-10 made an effort to split off 6 schools from the Big XII and jump to 16 members. The effort failed, but the PAC-10 expanded to 12 with Colorado and Utah wile the Big Ten expanded to 12 with Nebraska. In the process theBig XII shrunk to 10, but 12 became the new standard.

In 2011, the Big XII was looking to rebuild itself to 12 and was looking for candidates. They seemed oblivious to the possibility that conference's might expand beyond 12 and seemed to think that they would have the pick of what was out there. Rumors circulated that they were interested in Pitt of the Big East. In light of their eventual addition of West Virginia, the Pitt rumors see, very credible in retrospect as the 2 would have made perfect travel partners and would have brought an established rivalry. Before the Big XII acted, the ACC swooped in and grabbed Pitt along with Syracuse to expand to 14. With its focus myopically on football only, the Big XII added WVU without a travel partner and added the next best football program TCU, ignoring Louisville and leaving the Mountaineers on an island.

At the same time that the ACC beat the Big XII to Pitt, the SEC also decided to expand to 14 by first poaching Texas A&M from the Big XII and then Missouri. Before the Big XII had returned to 12, they were back down to 10. Fourteen had become the new standard and a year later the Big Ten also expanded to 14 by adding Maryland and Rutgers. The ACC responded by replacing Maryland with Louisville, sealing the Big XII's fate as a conference of 10 with West Virginia on an island with no geographic rival and travel partner.

Throughout this period of uncertainty, there was very much competition between the ACC and the Big XII. There were rumors that the Big XII would add Notre Dame, but the ACC moved first with a deal favorable to ND's interests. There were rumors that the Big XII would move into Florida by convincing Florida State that its football interests could be better met in the Big XII. But the ACC met FSU's needs by strengthening its football with the addition of Louisville instead of UConn and kept Florida State in the process.

Internal fighting weakened the Big XII while smart planning and unity advanced the interests of the ACC. The ACC has clearly emerged as the stronger conference going forward while the Big XII continues to be plagued by rumors of potential defections, starting with Oklahoma. There will be no ACC implosion suddenly making Duke and Wake available as basketball-only candidates. The ACC is now strong and whole.

Back when the Big East was imploding, the Big XII thought it had a real opportunity to expand into the East, thinking that the other conferences were set at 12. Has the ACC not grabbed Pitt, they might have done it. Imagine a Big XII with Pitt instead of TCU and with the potential to add 2 more eastern schools to Pitt and West Virginia. At the time, the Big XII thought that Syracuse, Rutgers, and Louisville would all be available, and that they could add 2 of the 3. Maybe even Notre Dame. Imagine a Big XII with only 8 out in the Great Plains and an eastern wing if 4-6 schools. That's what they were thinking before the ACC blocked them and the SEC and B1G further thwarted their plans.

The current situation does not seem exactly stable to me. You have the whims of ND. The B1G is still not done. And whether the Big 12 tries to poach two (or more) teams from somewhere or collapses that will have ripple effects on ACC. Vanderbilt in SEC and Duke and WF in the ACC as high standard academic private schools stick out like sore thumbs in those conferences. As someone else mentioned earlier the concussion issue also may have a long term impact on the financial performance of football. Conference realignment may be quiet for a few years but I still do not believe all the dominoes have fallen. The only think I'm sure of is that the B1G, PAC and SEC are the three conferences I would wager big money on for surviving and thriving long term.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

You have the whims of ND.

What whims are you referring to, do these whims destabilize the ACC, and if so, how? The ACC doesn't really need Notre Dame, and everyone knows it.

ACC experiences record revenue growth – The (Raleigh NC) New & Observer – June10, 2016

The SEC generated $527.4 million of revenue and dispersed $457.8 million to its member schools - an average of $32.7 million per school.

The Big Ten generated $448.8 million of revenue and dispersed $411.3 million to its member schools - an average $32.4 million per school.

The Pac-12 generated $439 million of revenue and distributed $301.4 million to its member schools - an average of $25.1 million per school.

The ACC generated $403.1 million in revenue and dispersed $373 million to its member schools - an average of $26.2 million per school.

The Big 12 generated $267.8 million in revenue and distributed $227.2 million to its member schools, - an average of $22.7 million per school.

Vanderbilt in SEC and Duke and WF in the ACC as high standard academic private schools stick out like sore thumbs in those conferences.

Given the financial information above, and the fact that Vanderbilt, Duke and Wake Forest cannot be voted out of their respective conferences, why would any of these three schools choose to leave their present conferences?

The only think I'm sure of is that the B1G, PAC, and SEC are the three conferences I would wager big money on for surviving and thriving long term.

The numbers suggest that the ACC is also a safe bet.

[Toronto Rapture]

The ACC will not implode. They have won the war.

The competition between the ACC and the Big XII for the 4th position among the power football conferences has been one of the undercovered elements of realignment. The ACC was brilliant in its strategy and outmanuveured the Big XII at every turn.

When realignment began in 2010, the largest major conference was 12 schools. The PAC-10 made an effort to split off 6 schools from the Big XII and jump to 16 members. The effort failed, but the PAC-10 expanded to 12 with Colorado and Utah wile the Big Ten expanded to 12 with Nebraska. In the process theBig XII shrunk to 10, but 12 became the new standard.

In 2011, the Big XII was looking to rebuild itself to 12 and was looking for candidates. They seemed oblivious to the possibility that conference's might expand beyond 12 and seemed to think that they would have the pick of what was out there. Rumors circulated that they were interested in Pitt of the Big East. In light of their eventual addition of West Virginia, the Pitt rumors see, very credible in retrospect as the 2 would have made perfect travel partners and would have brought an established rivalry. Before the Big XII acted, the ACC swooped in and grabbed Pitt along with Syracuse to expand to 14. With its focus myopically on football only, the Big XII added WVU without a travel partner and added the next best football program TCU, ignoring Louisville and leaving the Mountaineers on an island.

At the same time that the ACC beat the Big XII to Pitt, the SEC also decided to expand to 14 by first poaching Texas A&M from the Big XII and then Missouri. Before the Big XII had returned to 12, they were back down to 10. Fourteen had become the new standard and a year later the Big Ten also expanded to 14 by adding Maryland and Rutgers. The ACC responded by replacing Maryland with Louisville, sealing the Big XII's fate as a conference of 10 with West Virginia on an island with no geographic rival and travel partner.

Throughout this period of uncertainty, there was very much competition between the ACC and the Big XII. There were rumors that the Big XII would add Notre Dame, but the ACC moved first with a deal favorable to ND's interests. There were rumors that the Big XII would move into Florida by convincing Florida State that its football interests could be better met in the Big XII. But the ACC met FSU's needs by strengthening its football with the addition of Louisville instead of UConn and kept Florida State in the process.

Internal fighting weakened the Big XII while smart planning and unity advanced the interests of the ACC. The ACC has clearly emerged as the stronger conference going forward while the Big XII continues to be plagued by rumors of potential defections, starting with Oklahoma. There will be no ACC implosion suddenly making Duke and Wake available as basketball-only candidates. The ACC is now strong and whole.

Back when the Big East was imploding, the Big XII thought it had a real opportunity to expand into the East, thinking that the other conferences were set at 12. Has the ACC not grabbed Pitt, they might have done it. Imagine a Big XII with Pitt instead of TCU and with the potential to add 2 more eastern schools to Pitt and West Virginia. At the time, the Big XII thought that Syracuse, Rutgers, and Louisville would all be available, and that they could add 2 of the 3. Maybe even Notre Dame. Imagine a Big XII with only 8 out in the Great Plains and an eastern wing if 4-6 schools. That's what they were thinking before the ACC blocked them and the SEC and B1G further thwarted their plans.

That's some amazing insight, and part of the plot for a 30 for 30 on the Big XII someday. At this time, it would seem like the B1G, PAC 12, SEC, and ACC are the P5 conferences best situated to prevail during the next round of realignment, with Big XII schools being poached by those conferences. The Big XII could possibly survive by expanding, but they will need at least one of either Texas or Oklahoma to stay and make things work, and that commitment does not appear solid at this time. Its probably also frustrating for certain schools to always go along with the whims of Texas.

Many have speculated that we are eventually heading towards 4 power conferences, and its going to be a bit crazy to see just where everyone ends up, and whether all of the schools currently in P5 conferences will be able to remain in a power conference (Kansas football is absolutely horrific, but they should be okay because of basketball, but how desirable are Kansas State and Iowa State to other conferences?) and how these conferences will function and what their identity will become.

And of course, what challenges and even opportunities this will present for the BE.

[dakphonics]

Here's a random and interesting fact. Creighton, Xavier and Butler have all been ranked in the AP Poll more weeks since realignment than UCONN.

[xman]

Here's a random and interesting fact. Creighton, Xavier and Butler have all been ranked in the AP Poll more weeks since realignment than UCONN.

Without the Big East, UConn is the equivalent of SMU or ECU. Amazing how quickly they've fallen.

[Bill Marsh]

Here's a random and interesting fact. Creighton, Xavier and Butler have all been ranked in the AP Poll more weeks since realignment than UCONN.

Without the Big East, UConn is the equivalent of SMU or ECU. Amazing how quickly they've fallen.

Huh? They are a year off a conference championship and 3 years off a national championship. How does that equate to SMU and ECU?

[xman]

Here's a random and interesting fact. Creighton, Xavier and Butler have all been ranked in the AP Poll more weeks since realignment than UCONN.

Without the Big East, UConn is the equivalent of SMU or ECU. Amazing how quickly they've fallen.

Huh? They are a year off a conference championship and 3 years off a national championship. How does that equate to SMU and ECU?

We all know you love UConn but they suck. Sorry.

[billyjack]

Regarding UConn and the C-7 from back in 2012... i agree that UConn was no worse than Louisville, Rutgers and Cincinnati. But like those schools, they also were looking to bail on us if they had a chance, and they were actively campaigning for an ACC invitation... actually they've still never stopped campaigning. My beef is when UConn pretends this didn't, or isn't, happening, while pointing at the C-7 as the bad guys.

Just my opinion, but UConn should either:

1. go all in with the American, promote the conference, talk it up, really work to raise the American's attitude, and stop begging the ACC for an invitation. Mike Damone's rule about acting like "wherever you are, that's the place to be... hey, (looks around), isn't this great?"

2. go indie in football and join the Big East:
- go 6-6 and make a bowl.
- set your own schedule.
- sign a low cost deal with Fox (if they want you) or NBC (as a back up option).
- show confidence in the UConn brand.
- what's the worst thing that could happen?

Also, UConn is still recruiting great players. If the ACC had any brains, they'd offer them an invitation. I still think that UConn's best chance of getting to the ACC is to join the Big East, get to MSG, get old BE rivals twice a year each, and piss the ACC off that way. The ACC creeps will look to destroy the Big East and try by stealing UConn.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

The SEC generated $527.4 million of revenue and dispersed $457.8 million to its 14 member schools - an average of $32.7 million per school.

The Big Ten generated $448.8 million of revenue and dispersed $411.3 million to its 14 member schools - an average $32.4 million per school.

The Pac-12 generated $439 million of revenue and dispersed $301.4 million to its 12 member schools - an average of $25.1 million per school.

The ACC generated $403.1 million in revenue and dispersed $373 million to its 15 member schools - an average of $26.2 million per school.

The Big 12 generated $267.8 million in revenue and dispersed $227.2 million to its 10 member schools, - an average of $22.7 million per school.

The Big XII could possibly survive by expanding, but they will need at least one of either Texas or Oklahoma to stay and make things work, and that commitment does not appear solid at this time.

Texas and Oklahoma will bolt from the Big 12 in 2024. The financial information above and articles linked below explain why.

Big 12 football: Television deal will play major role in conference's future – The Oklahoman - June 11, 2016

Eight years from now, the Big 12's television contract — and the conference teams' grant of rights — will be close to ending, opening up what could be the next major shift in the conference or a continued show of league stability well into the future. It might seem like a long time away but it isn't too far into the future to consider what might happen with the conference once that television contract ends after the 2024-25 academic year, While they're tied together, the grant of rights is what has guaranteed league stability.

In 2011, with the conference in upheaval and trying to ward off other conferences from further poaching of its teams, the remaining schools signed a six-year deal giving their television rights to the conference, virtually eliminating any thought of leaving the Big 12 before the deal ended. That deal was eventually extended to 13 years when the league's television rights were renegotiated.

Most Power Five conference television deals expire around the same time — the Big Ten in 2023, Pac 12 in 2024 and ACC in 2027. The SEC is the outlier, with its contract not expiring until 2034.

But the climate in which the new deals are negotiated is likely to be much different than the last time these deals came up ... (read on)

The 5 Most Valuable College Football Teams in 2015 – July 9, 2016

1. Texas Longhorns - Team Value: $152 million

2. Notre Dame Fighting Irish - Team Value: $127 million

3. Tennessee Volunteers - Team Value: $121 million

4. LSU Tigers - Team Value: $111 million

5. Michigan Wolverines - Team Value: $105 million

With new ESPN network and Notre Dame closer to joining, ACC could be better than SEC- Orlando Sentinel – July 25, 2016

With the ACC announcing a few days ago that it is starting its own network in conjunction with ESPN -- a startling development that includes an even stronger relationship with Notre Dame -- how can you deny the ACC's potential strength relative to the SEC?

Notre Dame is still perhaps the premier national brand in college football.

The ACC's new grant of rights extends Notre Dame's contract with the conference as a member in all sports but football through 2035-36. However, if the Fighting Irish choose to join a conference in the next 20 years, they are contractually bound to join the ACC.

Notre Dame may eventually conclude that independence is no longer a viable route. Especially given one of the committee's primary points of emphasis is winning your conference.

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Many have speculated that we are eventually heading towards 4 power conferences, and it’s going to be a bit crazy to see just where everyone ends up, and whether all of the schools currently in P5 conferences will be able to remain in a power conference?

No.

2016 College Football Standings . . 2016 College Football Rankings . . 2017 College Basketball Standings. . 2017 College Basketball Rankings

It is not possible to reasonably speculate how good various college football and basketball programs will be eight years from now (because their future student-athletes are 10 to 14 years old now), but if the next big reshuffle happened this weekend, here are my guesses:

• The Big 10 will add Texas and Oklahoma to finish with 16 schools. Nebraska is already in the Big 10, and these rivalries attract national attention.

• The ACC will add Notre Dame football and West Virginia to finish with 16 schools. The Mountaineers are not a good academic fit for the ACC, but they are a very good geographic fit. The WV football team finished 18th in the Final AP Poll and the WV basketball team is ranked 13th in present AP Poll.

• The SEC will consider expanding to 16 schools, but ultimately remain at 14, as each school is presently getting an average of $32.7 million per school per year, and the available expansion candidate schools (from the Big 12 or elsewhere) would not bring commensurate revenue to the conference.

• The Pac 12 will remain at 12 schools, as each school is presently getting an average of $25.1 million per school per year, and the available expansion candidate schools (from the Big 12 or elsewhere) would not bring commensurate revenue to the conference. Also, there are no expansion candidate schools which are a good geographical fit for the Pac 12.

• The post-raid Big 12 will be down to 7 schools and must add 5 to 9 new schools in order to remain a viable conference. One of those schools will be Houston. The rest are anyone’s guess, but most will likely come from the American Athletic Conference. UConn will be at the front of the begging queue, but will be rejected because of geographic location (and poor football and basketball teams).

Big 12 Conference

Baylor University
Iowa State University
University of Kansas
Kansas State University
University of Oklahoma ==> Big 10
Oklahoma State University
University of Texas at Austin ==> Big 10
Texas Christian University
Texas Tech University
West Virginia University ==> ACC
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What challenges and even opportunities this will present for the BE?

None.

The Big East is an excellent national brand as a 10-school conference, and will not expand to 12 schools unless Fox Sports offers a lucrative incentive to do so when their present TV rights contract expires in 2024.

[Dave]

A few more pieces, by September 2011, things were desperate. In September 2010 the Big East asked Villanova to step up in football. Nova twiddled its thumbs on the invite, not sure what to do. At the end of November 2010 the Big East went outside and brought in TCU. By April 2011, Nova decided it wanted in for football, but they were blocked by WVU, Rutgers, and Pitt. Nova was no longer an immediate and desperate need by the conference at that time.

Pitt's Nordenberg reportedly led the charge in turning down the TV contract and rejecting Nova for football, while negotiating his departure for the ACC.

The C7 split was not made of brass balls or some great vision. FS1 was starting up and it created the opportunity for the C7. The new Big East is an incarnation of Fox Sports.

September 18, 2011|By Iliana Limón, Orlando Sentinel
MIAMI — UCF was waiting for a few more conference expansion dominoes to drop.

Pittsburgh and Syracuse are the latest schools leading what could be a dramatic shakeup of the college football landscape.

The New York Times and CBSSports.com were among the first to report the two schools applied for membership in the Atlantic Coast Conference. The ACC announced Sunday it voted to accept Pittsburgh and Syracuse as its newest members, leaving the already lean Big East’s football lineup with seven members next season.

ACC Commissioner John Swofford said during a teleconference Sunday the league received more than 10 applications from schools hoping to join the league. Orlando Sentinel sources confirmed multiple Big East members applied to join the league, including Villanova.