Non-Big East Conference Realignment Thread v. 2017

[maxpowers]

What does this give the Big East other than the potential for embarrassment?

I admit the matchups favor the BE, especially our mid-range teams versus theirs. The BE may win 90% of the games, making this a non-starter for the WCC.
The ideal West Coast partner would be the Pac 12, right? Elite programs, prominent players, huge fanbases. But a tournament arrangement with the Pac 12 will never happen in today’s landscape.
The football 5 conferences are too chicken to schedule too many games against other major conferences because they risk exposing themselves as weak if their teams underperform.
Major conferences just don’t have the courage to face major competition like us. We have the Gavitt Games and…that’s it. The BE has an opportunity to strike out a different direction.
Because the BE enjoys a strength advantage over the WCC, the BE leadership could take the lead in forming such a partnership. There’s a more realistic shot such a partnership could work.

Advantages for the BE:
1. If each BE team substitutes its 200+ RPI cupcakes (we all have them) with ~150 average RPI WCC opponents, multiplied by all the games, the BE realizes a big improvement in its RPI, even when we lose a portion of those games. Teams would be seeded by their preseason projections to create some relative balance in competition.
-This season, St. John’s lost to Delaware State (RPI 337), DePaul lost to Illinois-Chicago (RPI 257), Butler lost to Indiana State (RPI 198). Would it be devastating for the BE if they lost instead to last place Pepperdine (RPI 235)?
2. Like Jim Harbaugh scheduling Michigan football satellite camps in Florida, the BE plants its flag on the West Coast every other year. It’s a great showcase in front of West Coast recruits. Message: The BE has its roots in the East, but national prominence.
3. We earn respect because our teams don’t dodge what others perceive as inferior competition. We earn our reputation by playing anyone, anytime, anywhere. That’s great for the state of college basketball.
4. The proximity of our teams to their conference rivals strengthens competition in the league. You’re rooting for your conference rivals to win for the conference standing, but you know you will be slugging it out a few weeks later in conference play.

Advantages for the WCC:
1. Gain in prestige from the improved competition. Gonzaga fans would not need to make the case they deserve a #1 overall seed in the NCAA despite weak conference competition because they would have this early-season opportunity to prove they earned it. The same goes for every other WCC team in consideration for the tourney.
2. The WCC gains the same benefit of recruiting East Coast kids though I assume the effect would be much less.
3. The WCC gains access to better competition without having to rely on the cooperation of the Pac 12.

Another example:
Villanova participates in the Philadelphia Big 5 each year where they face teams like LaSalle (RPI 86) and Penn (RPI 177). Sometimes, there’s a huge disparity between the best and worst teams. They do it anyway because it’s a fun tradition that has produced epic battles. The unpredictability makes it interesting. I think the novelty of Big East powers facing the underdogs from the West each year would produce some great games.

[stever20]

here's the thing you are failing to see. This year is actually an above average year for the WCC....

last year-
4th place had 135
5th place on had RPI's of 223 or worse

Big East generally does a good job scheduling.....
this year had 46 games vs P5, but then as well 8 with the AAC and 7 with the A10. So 63 games vs the top 8 conferences. 2 with the 10th place MWC, 3 with 11th place CAA, and 6 with 12th place MVC. So 74 of the 126 OOC games were done with the top 12 conferences.

The other thing is anything Thanksgiving weekend is a total non starter. You have the exempt tournaments going on a lot that weekend, and those DO help schools out, not a silly challenge vs a bad conference.

[gtmoBlue]

While this BE / WCC conversation is entertaining, it primarily BENEFITS the WCC and whomever plays the Zags gets the sole bump in RPI/SOS.

If the BE plays a Leftcoast Challenge...it should be against our Fox stablemate - the PAC 12. I'd rather have a shot at one of the upper half of the PAC 12 than Pacific or Pepperdine.

[GoldenWarrior11]

While this BE / WCC conversation is entertaining, it primarily BENEFITS the WCC and whomever plays the Zags gets the sole bump in RPI/SOS.

If the BE plays a Leftcoast Challenge...it should be against our Fox stablemate - the PAC 12. I'd rather have a shot at one of the upper half of the PAC 12 than Pacific or Pepperdine.

And as long as Arizona and UCLA refuse to participate in such a matchup, there is no point for a BE/PAC12 scheduling alliance.

[RedStorm]

What does this give the Big East other than the potential for embarrassment?

I admit the matchups favor the BE, especially our mid-range teams versus theirs. The BE may win 90% of the games, making this a non-starter for the WCC.
The ideal West Coast partner would be the Pac 12, right? Elite programs, prominent players, huge fanbases. But a tournament arrangement with the Pac 12 will never happen in today’s landscape.
The football 5 conferences are too chicken to schedule too many games against other major conferences because they risk exposing themselves as weak if their teams underperform.
Major conferences just don’t have the courage to face major competition like us. We have the Gavitt Games and…that’s it. The BE has an opportunity to strike out a different direction.
Because the BE enjoys a strength advantage over the WCC, the BE leadership could take the lead in forming such a partnership. There’s a more realistic shot such a partnership could work.

Advantages for the BE:
1. If each BE team substitutes its 200+ RPI cupcakes (we all have them) with ~150 average RPI WCC opponents, multiplied by all the games, the BE realizes a big improvement in its RPI, even when we lose a portion of those games. Teams would be seeded by their preseason projections to create some relative balance in competition.
-This season, St. John’s lost to Delaware State (RPI 337), DePaul lost to Illinois-Chicago (RPI 257), Butler lost to Indiana State (RPI 198). Would it be devastating for the BE if they lost instead to last place Pepperdine (RPI 235)?
2. Like Jim Harbaugh scheduling Michigan football satellite camps in Florida, the BE plants its flag on the West Coast every other year. It’s a great showcase in front of West Coast recruits. Message: The BE has its roots in the East, but national prominence.
3. We earn respect because our teams don’t dodge what others perceive as inferior competition. We earn our reputation by playing anyone, anytime, anywhere. That’s great for the state of college basketball.
4. The proximity of our teams to their conference rivals strengthens competition in the league. You’re rooting for your conference rivals to win for the conference standing, but you know you will be slugging it out a few weeks later in conference play.

Advantages for the WCC:
1. Gain in prestige from the improved competition. Gonzaga fans would not need to make the case they deserve a #1 overall seed in the NCAA despite weak conference competition because they would have this early-season opportunity to prove they earned it. The same goes for every other WCC team in consideration for the tourney.
2. The WCC gains the same benefit of recruiting East Coast kids though I assume the effect would be much less.
3. The WCC gains access to better competition without having to rely on the cooperation of the Pac 12.

Another example:
Villanova participates in the Philadelphia Big 5 each year where they face teams like LaSalle (RPI 86) and Penn (RPI 177). Sometimes, there’s a huge disparity between the best and worst teams. They do it anyway because it’s a fun tradition that has produced epic battles. The unpredictability makes it interesting. I think the novelty of Big East powers facing the underdogs from the West each year would produce some great games.

What the hell are you talking about?! The F5 "afraid to face other major conferences ". Outside of the F5 there is only ONE other major conf. The BE has been doing this annual challenge with the B10. The BE has no trouble getting games with other major conferences. If the Pac12 isnt interested, its for some other reason than fearing embarrassment from some lowly conference.

There is literally no reason to play any wcc team other than Gonzaga and St. Mary's. The others would be wasted scrimmages against subpar comp

[maxpowers]

Regarding the idea of a BE vs. WCC non-con tournament...

With the Football 5 discussing the idea of breaking away from the FBS format in football, I think it would be smart for the BE to create some independence from the Football 5. Who knows what impact that might have on basketball and the future of the BE. It would likely be bad.
I think our best bet is to form some new traditions with the best available, non-Football 5 conferences, to give us some leverage in case the Football 5 makes some radical moves that hurt the BE.
If the Football 5 continue to schedule us in basketball, by all means, keep doing it. We are currently 28-18 vs. the Football 5 this year. We've been very competitive with them every year. There is no better way to remain important in the big picture than to stay successful. But what if they begin to separate from the non-Football 5 NCAA teams and start limiting opportunities to schedule them in the future? We should start preparing for that possibility now when the conference is strong.

The best available conferences to partner with for some type of non-con tournament:
1. American Athletic and Mountain West: Both conferences are football-first, meaning they are more likely to align themselves with the Football 5 in the event of big changes. Worse yet, they do football badly. There's the possibility of enhancing our schedule with the AAC. We already have some good matches between Xavier-Cinci, Georgetown-UConn, Villanova-Temple. The Mountain West lacks any standard-bearer teams that would generate exciting matches.
2. A10: We already play 10+ games against them, so I doubt there's the opportunity to expand much more. Some of the games are good rivalries. They share the same geographic territory, so there aren't many chances to play in front of new recruits.
3. Missouri Valley: .....No.
4. West Coast Conference: Basketball-first conference. BYU is the lone exception, but they're smart about the way they positioned their football program. We get an excuse to go play in front of California recruits every other year in a setup that is favorable to the BE. If these games replace the "junk" RPI games we currently schedule, it is a net RPI gain for the conference.

I admit it is a stretch. But the BE has the Midas Touch when it comes to basketball. Virtually all the programs they have associated with have performed better than they would have without being involved with the BE, including the teams they compete against. Who's to say the WCC couldn't become the BE counterpart of the West if leadership from the BE nudged the process forward.

[MUPanther]

http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/rothste ... all-heats/

"UConn will heavily explore joining another league in the offseason: The Huskies have battled injuries this season en route to a 10-12 record, but their overall cache as a program also isn’t quite what it was when they were operating in the old Big East. Kevin Ollie led UConn to a national title in 2014, but the Huskies’ brand still belongs on a bigger stage. Sources have told FanRag Sports that UConn has consistently looked into joining the Big East as a basketball only member as long as it could find another home for its football program....."

[GumbyDamnit!]

http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/rothstein-files-30-thoughts-college-basketball-heats/

"UConn will heavily explore joining another league in the offseason: The Huskies have battled injuries this season en route to a 10-12 record, but their overall cache as a program also isn’t quite what it was when they were operating in the old Big East. Kevin Ollie led UConn to a national title in 2014, but the Huskies’ brand still belongs on a bigger stage. Sources have told FanRag Sports that UConn has consistently looked into joining the Big East as a basketball only member as long as it could find another home for its football program....."

Interesting. I've always been in the camp to get UConn back in the fold if you can make it work (ie - they give up their hopes for major college FB). But this is a "bold prediction," not something based on an inside scoop. I think like many college BB fans across the country, it is difficult watching a proud program like theirs slowly fade into mediocrity in a mediocre conference. I think Rothstein is simply wishing for UConn to land in a better spot and sees no other option than a return to the BE.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Frankly, I'm not sure which prediction is more bogus - UConn going back to the Big East, or that the Big East will only have one Sweet 16 team this year.

[Bill Marsh]

http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/rothstein-files-30-thoughts-college-basketball-heats/

"UConn will heavily explore joining another league in the offseason: The Huskies have battled injuries this season en route to a 10-12 record, but their overall cache as a program also isn’t quite what it was when they were operating in the old Big East. Kevin Ollie led UConn to a national title in 2014, but the Huskies’ brand still belongs on a bigger stage. Sources have told FanRag Sports that UConn has consistently looked into joining the Big East as a basketball only member as long as it could find another home for its football program....."

Although I haven't seen this coming, I have to respect Rothstein's reporting because he's solid. His report I'd followed by a couple of "but . . ." Hard to know what to think because the expansion money is running out, attendance has suffered with membership in the ACC, realignment in the F5 has quieted down, and Fox would probably love more marquee games. I'll still be surprised if it happens in 2017. If I were the Big East, I'd much prefer Gonzaga even with the travel inconveniences to a program that will he constantly looking to leave. Why help them out?