Non-Big East Conference Realignment Thread v. 2017

[Bill Marsh]

Fox has slowly over the past 5 years cut into ESPN and continues to gain viewers with its regional approach to baseball and its solid ratings on the NFL. They are also making very good inroads on the radio side. The Big East as a product for them will have to expand. This year is becoming an example, the inventory is flawed and ratings are sliding a bit form the last two years. Too many irrelevant teams, GW/St Johns/Providence/Seton Hall and now the slumping X and Creighton cause rating slips and may hurt attendance at the Garden. Contract has 8 more years I think Fox will push quicker than that.

Yes, and the question will be who are the adds that will actually improve ratings? Big schools with big fan bases? Consistently high performing programs regardless of size? Adding mediocre programs will only add more mediocre games, so it could be a catch-22.

The one reason for them to wait - as many here have pointed out - is to see how developments affect borderline football programs.

[RedStorm]

Honestly, all of the silly mid major fans here putting forth arguments for their teams inclusion in the BE should save their delusional breath. The BE has no interest in becoming the A10 2.0. Creighten, Butler, Xavier were the last midmajors in. No more spots unless someone attains Gonzaga like success and becomes essentially a major program in a minor conf.

The only acceptable targets for any potential future expansion are UConn, Memphis, Temple and other schools from among the current F5.
Would rather remain at 10 forever than dilute the conference with a bunch of midmajor trash.

[topdog]

Honestly, this is funny considering the source...

[Bill Marsh]

Honestly, all of the silly mid major fans here putting forth arguments for their teams inclusion in the BE should save their delusional breath. The BE has no interest in becoming the A10 2.0. Creighten, Butler, Xavier were the last midmajors in. No more spots unless someone attains Gonzaga like success and becomes essentially a major program in a minor conf.

The only acceptable targets for any potential future expansion are UConn, Memphis, Temple and other schools from among the current F5.
Would rather remain at 10 forever than dilute the conference with a bunch of midmajor trash.

Hmm . . .

Gonzaga has attained Gonzaga-like success. How about that?

[RedStorm]

Honestly, all of the silly mid major fans here putting forth arguments for their teams inclusion in the BE should save their delusional breath. The BE has no interest in becoming the A10 2.0. Creighten, Butler, Xavier were the last midmajors in. No more spots unless someone attains Gonzaga like success and becomes essentially a major program in a minor conf.

The only acceptable targets for any potential future expansion are UConn, Memphis, Temple and other schools from among the current F5.
Would rather remain at 10 forever than dilute the conference with a bunch of midmajor trash.

Hmm . . .

Gonzaga has attained Gonzaga-like success. How about that?

If Gonzaga were in the Midwest they would already be in the BE. Just TOO far geographically. But who knows, maybe if there is a strong impetus to expand in the near future and UConn, Memphis are staying put in the AAC and all of the F5 conferences remain intact, maybe someone decides its a good add despite being as far away as one can be from the east coast. A great program and would solidify the BE as one of the top 2 conferences among the P6. But I suspect the geography will be too big a hurdle.

[Toronto Rapture]

BE is my favourite basketball conference and Big XII is my favourite football conference (though I like their basketball teams too and they are doing quite well with Baylor, WV, and Kansas of course). Conference realignment can be exciting, but in the case of the Big XII, it has seemed to be driven largely by instability and uncertainty. Even then, I thought it was exciting that the Big XII could be expanding even if the candidates were not exactly ideal. When the conference decided against expansion, it seemed like the beginning of the end for me. Who knows how it will turn out, but thats the way it appears to me.

In contrast to the Big XII, the NBE actually appears to be in a good spot right now, so if the conference were to expand, hopefully it would be selective and pick the right candidates based on what is good for the conference, not what is good for Fox (though those things don't necessarily have to be exclusive of each other). I don't know how realistic that is though and whether the BE would be able to resist pressure from Fox. It would suck to see the conference expand just to make Fox happy with schools that might compromise the identity and stability of the league in the long run.

BE expansion might still be some time away, but it is fun to speculate.

The only logical choice for me would be Uconn considering their history with the conference and their basketball pedigree, but only if they were to get rid of football. Even then, I don't like the idea of Uconn potentially holding the conference for ransom with football and seeking membership in other conferences.

[Bill Marsh]

BE is my favourite basketball conference and Big XII is my favourite football conference (though I like their basketball teams too and they are doing quite well with Baylor, WV, and Kansas of course). Conference realignment can be exciting, but in the case of the Big XII, it has seemed to be driven largely by instability and uncertainty. Even then, I thought it was exciting that the Big XII could be expanding even if the candidates were not exactly ideal. When the conference decided against expansion, it seemed like the beginning of the end for me. Who knows how it will turn out, but thats the way it appears to me.

In contrast to the Big XII, the NBE actually appears to be in a good spot right now, so if the conference were to expand, hopefully it would be selective and pick the right candidates based on what is good for the conference, not what is good for Fox (though those things don't necessarily have to be exclusive of each other). I don't know how realistic that is though and whether the BE would be able to resist pressure from Fox. It would suck to see the conference expand just to make Fox happy with schools that might compromise the identity and stability of the league in the long run.

BE expansion might still be some time away, but it is fun to speculate.

The only logical choice for me would be Uconn considering their history with the conference and their basketball pedigree, but only if they were to get rid of football. Even then, I don't like the idea of Uconn potentially holding the conference for ransom with football and seeking membership in other conferences.

The difference between the Big XII and the Big East is that the Big XII is the most unstable of the football power 5 conferences while the Big East is one of the most stable of any conference this side of the Ivy League.

To protect itself against future defections, the Big XII should have expanded. The longer the most attractive candidates remain outside the P5, the more their football will likely deteriorate. If they were brought into a P5 conference now, odds are much greater that they could improve to competitive P5 standards. In that event, the Big XII might remain a competitive P5 conference even if they lost Texas and Oklahoma. But if they go shopping after the loss of those two, any additions would severely downgrade what's left over and likely drop it from P5 stature.

[Toronto Rapture]

The difference between the Big XII and the Big East is that the Big XII is the most unstable of the football power 5 conferences while the Big East is one of the most stable of any conference this side of the Ivy League.

To protect itself against future defections, the Big XII should have expanded. The longer the most attractive candidates remain outside the P5, the more their football will likely deteriorate. If they were brought into a P5 conference now, odds are much greater that they could improve to competitive P5 standards. In that event, the Big XII might remain a competitive P5 conference even if they lost Texas and Oklahoma. But if they go shopping after the loss of those two, any additions would severely downgrade what's left over and likely drop it from P5 stature.

I agree. It seems like the other schools are going along with Texas and Oklahoma in the present, even though those schools are likely to leave the conference once the current TV deal is up. If the conference only addresses expansion at that time, it will be too late. Besides, the conference itself has shown that with an adjustment period new members can become competitive. TCU and Baylor weren't exactly powerhouses when they joined the conference, but they have become solid programs since (even with the controversies surrounding Baylor of late). I think a similar approach could work with the BE where a school like St. Louis seems to satisfy a lot of the criteria the conference is looking for, except for the basketball. Maybe once in the conference, the program could improve somewhat quickly with the benefits the BE membership would bring.

Interestingly,the instability of the Big XII has already had some benefits for the BE in that UCONN seemingly has few P5 options now that the Big XII is not expanding and rejoining the BE may now be an option. If the Big XII dissolves entirely, maybe the BE becomes an even more valuable commodity and the conference has more negotiating power. I rather the Big XII continue though, not wishing it to dissolve, but it is somewhat a gong show right now.

I love the BE right now. The round robin, the members, the basketball. It all gels. Hopefully any expansion that happens it will strengthen the league.

[maxpowers]

I think the current ten-team configuration of the Big East is perfect, and I hope it never changes. However, it's too bad the West Coast Conference does not enjoy more depth beyond Gonzaga, St. Mary's and (usually) BYU, or they would seem to be a natural partner to enhance the non-conference schedules for both our leagues. There have been several suggestions about the (I think far-fetched) idea of Gonzaga being invited to the BE. Rather than making Gonzaga a permanent BE member, why not arrange an early-season non-conference tournament where BE teams compete against comparable strength teams from the WCC, based on their pre-season projections.
1. Both the BE and WCC are basketball-centric leagues comprised of private, mostly catholic schools.
2. You could alternate the tournament location from LA-SF one year to NY-Chicago the next and schedule it opposite Thanksgiving to avoid missing too many classes.
3. If you scheduled it properly, most teams could get up to three contests, a quarter of their non-conference schedule needs.
4. If each BE team substituted WCC opponents in place of their cupcake matchups (every team has a few), it would likely improve RPIs and better prepare our teams for the conference season.
Of course, the problem is the RPIs drop off big time after BYU. I see San Francisco (RPI 105) and Santa Clara (RPI 145) are the fourth and fifth best teams currently. Pepperdine is last at RPI 235, but that is hardly much worse than DePaul's RPI 228. The middle-tier BE teams would probably feast on the middle-tier WCC teams.
But based on the preseason projections, we may have been treated to games like Villanova vs. Gonzaga, Xavier vs. St. Mary's and Creighton vs. BYU (a rematch of a decent NIT game last year - until we ended up losing). I think something like that could be a pretty cool format.
Go Bluejays!

[Hall2012]

I think the current ten-team configuration of the Big East is perfect, and I hope it never changes. However, it's too bad the West Coast Conference does not enjoy more depth beyond Gonzaga, St. Mary's and (usually) BYU, or they would seem to be a natural partner to enhance the non-conference schedules for both our leagues. There have been several suggestions about the (I think far-fetched) idea of Gonzaga being invited to the BE. Rather than making Gonzaga a permanent BE member, why not arrange an early-season non-conference tournament where BE teams compete against comparable strength teams from the WCC, based on their pre-season projections.
1. Both the BE and WCC are basketball-centric leagues comprised of private, mostly catholic schools.
2. You could alternate the tournament location from LA-SF one year to NY-Chicago the next and schedule it opposite Thanksgiving to avoid missing too many classes.
3. If you scheduled it properly, most teams could get up to three contests, a quarter of their non-conference schedule needs.
4. If each BE team substituted WCC opponents in place of their cupcake matchups (every team has a few), it would likely improve RPIs and better prepare our teams for the conference season.
Of course, the problem is the RPIs drop off big time after BYU. I see San Francisco (RPI 105) and Santa Clara (RPI 145) are the fourth and fifth best teams currently. Pepperdine is last at RPI 235, but that is hardly much worse than DePaul's RPI 228. The middle-tier BE teams would probably feast on the middle-tier WCC teams.
But based on the preseason projections, we may have been treated to games like Villanova vs. Gonzaga, Xavier vs. St. Mary's and Creighton vs. BYU (a rematch of a decent NIT game last year - until we ended up losing). I think something like that could be a pretty cool format.
Go Bluejays!

What does this give the Big East other than the potential for embarrassment? At least 9 of the Big East schools would have no problem finishing in the top 3 of the WCC. It's a conference of mostly what would be considered "cupcakes" and why would an east coast Big East team want to travel to the west coast to play them?

Seton Hall's most annoying OOC game this year is Hawaii. Hopefully Cal stays in the top 50 to make that trip worthwhile because traveling 5,000 miles to play the RPI #315 Warriors was a total waste. It would essentially be the same thing. I know WCC teams aren't quite that bad, but if a team is going to travel that far, they need to play a worthwhile game, where winning is about more than avoiding a bad loss.