Non-Big East Conference Realignment Thread v. 2017

[Edrick]

The only public school with a nonzero chance of admittance is UConn and that's only because their football program is an albatross and it makes some sense they'll eventually rid themselves of it.

Discussing the merits of VCU has no more pertinence than discussing any random school on the map. They just do not meet the prerequisites.

[stever20]

The only public school with a nonzero chance of admittance is UConn and that's only because their football program is an albatross and it makes some sense they'll eventually rid themselves of it.

Discussing the merits of VCU has no more pertinence than discussing any random school on the map. They just do not meet the prerequisites.

The only prerequisite they don't meet is private. Everything else they are fine with. And the thing is, if UConn is in, the private/public thing means far less.

[Bill Marsh]

The only public school with a nonzero chance of admittance is UConn and that's only because their football program is an albatross and it makes some sense they'll eventually rid themselves of it.

Discussing the merits of VCU has no more pertinence than discussing any random school on the map. They just do not meet the prerequisites.

The "prerequisites" are each person's set of assumptions. And no one knows if they will change.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

I still think Fox may want one more team in 2019 for content in our round robin format. Hard to see a good fit anywhere on the horizon.

Dayton seems to be a market overlap ...

To Xavier fans – yes. To Fox Sports and ESPN – no. Cincinnati and Dayton are essentially a common market for the NFL (Bengals) and MLB (Reds), but are completely different markets for NCAA basketball. Due to the big differences in the population and economic success of the cities of Cincinnati and Dayton, there are far more Dayton alumni in the Cincinnati area than there are Xavier alumni in the Dayton area. There is very little interest in Xavier basketball in the Dayton area, but thousands of Dayton Flyers fans live in the Cincinnati area and drive up I-75 for Flyers’ home games and watch the Flyers play on TV. And UD has far more basketball fans than Xavier:

2015-16 Enrolment
10,920 - University of Dayton
6,538 - Xavier University

Dayton has more than 1½ times as many students as Xavier, and has more than 1½ of the number of alumni than Xavier. The vast majority of the University of Dayton alumni live outside of the Dayton area, and most Dayton alumni are serious basketball fans - including me. We travel to Madison Square Gardens, Barclay Center, Chicago, Los Angeles, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Orlando, (and anywhere else you can name) in the thousands - and in much greater numbers than our opponents' fans. And we’re not just coming from Dayton:

University of Dayton Alumni Chapters
Atlanta • Austin • Boston • Charlotte • Chicago • Cincinnati • Cleveland • Columbus • Dallas / Ft. Worth • Dayton • Denver • Detroit • Houston • Indianapolis • Los Angeles • Louisville • Miami • Milwaukee • Nashville • New York / New Jersey • Northwest Ohio • Orange County, CA • Philadelphia • Phoenix • Pittsburgh • Puerto Rico • Raleigh / Durham • Rochester • San Diego • San Francisco • Seattle • St. Louis • Tampa Bay • Washington DC / Baltimore • Western Michigan

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I think if history is any key, Archie will leave soon. Archie like Thad and Sean, has an E8 under his belt. I think he will want the challenge off a P5 situation, and waiting for the big blue bloods is not something I think he'll do.

Think again. It’s already been taken care of in Archie’s contract with UD. First, some relevant background information:

Oliver Purnell • 9 seasons 1994-2003 • W-L 155–116 (.572) • 2 NCAAs • 3 NITs • (Accepted offer from Clemson.)

Brian Gregory • 8 seasons 2003-2011 • W-L 172–94 (.647) • 2 NCAAs • 3 NITs • (Accepted offer from Georgia Tech.)

Archie Miller • 5.47 seasons 2011-Present • W-L 126–58 (.685) • 3 NCAAs • 1 NIT • (Present contract extended through 2024.)

Archie Miller has won 5 NCAA Tournament games in the past 3 seasons, and it appears that he will remain at Dayton for a number of years to come.

Oliver Purnell started at Dayton on about $300,000/yr. and finished at Dayton on about $600,000/yr.

Brian Gregory started at Dayton on about $400,000/yr. and finished at Dayton on about $800,000/yr.

Archie Miller started at Dayton on about $600,000/yr. and is presently making in the range of $2.5M - $3M per year, thanks to a number of very wealthy alumni who are contributing generously to Archie’s total pay package – something that was unprecedented at UD prior to Archie’s Elite 8 run in 2013-14.

From what I have heard, these boosters are determined to keep Archie at UD until his ‘dream job’ becomes available, but they are not interested in preventing Archie from taking it when the opportunity comes. Word on the UD grapevine is that Archie’s present contract allows him to name three ‘destination’ schools, and for each of these ‘destination’ schools, his contract buy-out is $0. For all other schools, the buy-out for Archie’s contract is $5M. The format of Archie’s contract provides an extremely strong incentive for him to remain at UD until his ‘dream job' comes calling. While the three schools are known by only a handful of people, it is widely speculated that they are Ohio State, Indiana, and NC State (Archie’s alma mater).

The significance of all of this three-fold:

(1) It took long enough, but the University of Dayton (and its very wealthy donors) have come to realize that UD has to pay big money in order to keep a very good coach. I believe that lesson has finally been learned.

(2) Dayton is not a ‘destination’ job for Archie, but it is quite unlikely that he will leave Dayton until one of his ‘dream schools’ has a vacancy for head coach. Archie was an early candidate for the Alabama and Texas jobs last April (for about $3M/yr.), but he informed both schools that he was not interested. Expect more of the same this April (unless Thad Matta decides to retire early).

(3) UD will spend a lot of money to get an excellent replacement for Archie when the time comes. They cannot afford to do otherwise.

[hoops22]

Due to conference loyalty, I'd always pull for Xavier vs Dayton, should they play again anytime soon. Outside of that though, I'd be happy if UD winds up in the Big East one day. I watched last nights game against Rhode Island and it was a great atmosphere, even with the students still on break. The program has been good for awhile now, and I think it's likely to stay that way. Plus I have a warm spot for them after they knocked Syracuse out of the NCAA tournament a couple of years ago. So if expansion ever happens one day, I'm on board for seeing UD joining the club.

[gtmoBlue]

Wait 1 darned minute here! Archie Miller makes $2.5-3 Million (USD) at Dayton? Really? Nah, you're sh_ttin' me? At DAYTON?

Hurry up and leave for OSU Arch! I'm sending my CV/Resume to UD immediately! My retirement can go back on hold for that kind of cash. Ol' gtmoBlue as the New HC at Dayton...will reintroduce a hi-low post offense (the old Tom Apke offense), Man defense, with press, and a shifting 1-3-1/2-3 zone on occasion. Lastly, a modified version (28 second version) of Creighton's old 5-game (stall) for specific occasions. Shoot, in Ohio, even ol' git can recruit some good 3-star, and a couple of 4-star guys to run our stuff...I'll be able to sustain the NCAA run trend. I'll be the Chris Mullin of the A-10... Now if I can talk Murph into coming along and recruiting...?

Go Archie...vamos! What the heck are you waiting on...Beat feet, git!

What a coincidence... I have visited Dayton on a couple of occasions, back in my military contractor days. A symposia at Wright-Pat and also passed thru on a XMas junket back in the day. ALWAYS loved the city! A great place to raise a family, aviation history (my fav), and great weather. And what do you know... Dayton RECENTLY surged to No. 1 on my 2017 list of Fav Cities in America, surpassing the previous top 3 of New Orleans, San Francisco, and Miami to claim the Top Spot on the list! Wow, talk about serendipity...

PS: DAYTON is the ONLY realistic candidate for inclusion into the Big East!

luv ya,
gtmo

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

gtmoBlue, I'm honesty surprised your surprised by Archie's contract. With the exception of UD's lack of continuous MBB excellence (we did lose our way for awhile and its our own fault) we are peers to the BE in every way. You'd probably also be surprised we invest more in Engineering R&D than any Catholic school in the country.

[gtmoBlue]

gtmoBlue, I'm honesty surprised your surprised by Archie's contract. With the exception of UD's lack of continuous MBB excellence (we did lose our way for awhile and its our own fault) we are peers to the BE in every way. You'd probably also be surprised we invest more in Engineering R&D than any Catholic school in the country.

Flyer... That's megabucks, at any level. More than the coaches in the BE, with exception to JT3 and Jay Wright. More than the vast majority of P5 coaches. Hell,I'd sell/give away ALL of my ex-motherinlaws for that kind of money...and it's documented that I Loved ALL of my ex-motherinlaws. lol

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Link to lengthy original post excerpted below:

Please note that in the excerpt below, I have intentionally omitted Team Values, as Forbes’ valuation methodology has not been disclosed.

College Basketball's 20 Most Valuable Teams - 2016 - Forbes - March 14, 2016

17. Dayton – 2015 Revenue: $ 12.9 million. 2015 Profit: $ 7.2 million.

19. Xavier – 2015 Revenue: $ 12.1 million. 2015 Profit: $ 6.6 million.

20. Marquette – 2015 Revenue: $ 15.3 million. 2015 Profit: $ 6.3 million.

The other eight Big East teams do not appear on Forbes' list. Also note that Archie Miller has garnered 8 NCAA Tournament Units over the past three seasons, worth about $1.6 million each (or a total of $12.8M).

You're right about Archie making more that the vast majority of Big East coaches. Dayton is big-time basketball by any standards except conference affiliation, and Archie is worth every cent of the $2.5M - $3.0M he's getting this season.

[paulxu]

Muddy, good to trade stuff with you again.
We'll see about Archie. The bloom fades from the E8 if continued NCAA success doesn't follow.
That could change a lot of stuff.
Also, never overlook the desire for a competitive type (like most coaches) to want to play on a bigger stage. It's in the blood.
Few and far between are the exceptions like Few and McKilop.