Non-Big East Conference Realignment Thread v. 2017

[Xudash]

Dayton made sense from the very beginning. Why they are not in remains a mystery to me. Dayton, by itself, would be an outstanding member. Arguing against Dayton's addition makes no sense.

Boston university and Richmond should be added immediately. Put the East back in The Big East, on 95, on- campus arenas, big endowments, great basketball potential and good academics. Add these two and call it a day.

I'm still trying to process how Dayton made sense from the very beginning. Of course, there isn't any reason to actually spend time on that one, sense the people who actually made the decisions on conference composition didn't think that way at all and appear to have gotten it right with X, Butler and Creighton.

We miss you guys too. I'll be beyond shocked at ever getting a nice comment on this board from a X fan. But I do agree with you Dash- the 3 of you have been very good for the BE- you'll never hear sour grapes from a UD fan on that.

UDFF, my comment wasn't intended to have a snide tone. I seriously was questioning the reasoning of Hoya33, given UD's resume at the time of the formation of the conference and obviously given what is known about how the conference actually came together.

BTW, Happy New Year!

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

You make a fair point Dash- and I'll still buy you a beer the next time we face you OOC. I really do miss hating you guys!
And a safe & happy New Year to you and all those on this Board.

[notkirkcameron]

Posted in the old thread and re-posted here for the record.

There are, at present time, no programs that have all of the following five traits:
1.) Institutional fit (meaning a private, non-FBS school).
2.) Consistent, high-level basketball (defined as consistent conference titles and/or NCAA Tournament appearances).
3.) Geographic fit (i.e., the Northeastern quarter of the country from the Atlantic Ocean to the banks of the Missouri River).
4.) New Markets (i.e., they give the Big East something that the league doesn't already have with another program).
5.) Has never backstabbed/sold out the Big East.

Every school I've personally ever seen discussed is missing at least one of the above.

Has FBS Football and Unlikely to Give it Up
Notre Dame, UConn, Temple, Memphis, Cincinnati, Duke, Wake Forest, UMass, BYU, insert your favorite ex-Big East school or pie-in-the-sky candidate here.

Inconsistent/Bad Basketball
UMass, LaSalle, St. Joe's, Temple, Dayton, SLU, Drake, Northeastern, Boston U, Cincinnati, Detroit Mercy, Davidson, Duquesne, Richmond, VCU, George Washington, George Mason,

Non-Private Schools
UMass, VCU, Temple, UConn, Cincinnati, Wichita State, George Mason

Preposterous Geographic Outliers
Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU

Market Redundancy
St. Joe's, LaSalle, Temple, Fordham, Dayton, Cincinnati, George Washington, George Mason, and arguably Richmond and VCU

Former Big East members who quit the Conference
Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech, West Virginia

There are only three schools that are worth compromising these five key areas:
The first is UConn. However, it is contingent upon UConn dismantling, cancelling, and renouncing, in perpetuity, its disastrous FBS football program. The Big East can forgive UConn's lack of institutional fit if it gives up its football program.

The second is the University of Notre Dame. Notre Dame is already an institutional fit as a private school within the Big East's geographic footprint. Notre Dame will never give up its football program, but as an Independent, Notre Dame poses less of a flight risk. If the Irish ever decide that the ACC is not for them, the Big East may be willing to overlook their past transgressions.

The third is Duke, for obvious reasons. If Duke ever called the Big East with intent to explore leaving the ACC, you better believe they'd pick up the phone.

Adding any of those three schools would require, as a prerequisite, a heretofore unforeseen titanic shift in the college sports landscape. Adding any school other than those three will likely not grow the pie to a large enough size to justify the existing conference members taking a smaller slice (i.e., 8% of a watermelon is better than 10% of a grape).

Therefore, stay at 10, and wait for the other conferences to eat each other. Then, many years down the line, you have the option to add a school that got left behind...like a UConn. Like a Temple. Like a Wake Forest.

[Xudash]

Posted in the old thread and re-posted here for the record.

There are, at present time, no programs that have all of the following five traits:
1.) Institutional fit (meaning a private, non-FBS school).
2.) Consistent, high-level basketball (defined as consistent conference titles and/or NCAA Tournament appearances).
3.) Geographic fit (i.e., the Northeastern quarter of the country from the Atlantic Ocean to the banks of the Missouri River).
4.) New Markets (i.e., they give the Big East something that the league doesn't already have with another program).
5.) Has never backstabbed/sold out the Big East.

Every school I've personally ever seen discussed is missing at least one of the above.

Has FBS Football and Unlikely to Give it Up
Notre Dame, UConn, Temple, Memphis, Cincinnati, Duke, Wake Forest, UMass, BYU, insert your favorite ex-Big East school or pie-in-the-sky candidate here.

Inconsistent/Bad Basketball
UMass, LaSalle, St. Joe's, Temple, Dayton, SLU, Drake, Northeastern, Boston U, Cincinnati, Detroit Mercy, Davidson, Duquesne, Richmond, VCU, George Washington, George Mason,

Non-Private Schools
UMass, VCU, Temple, UConn, Cincinnati, Wichita State, George Mason

Preposterous Geographic Outliers
Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU

Market Redundancy
St. Joe's, LaSalle, Temple, Fordham, Dayton, Cincinnati, George Washington, George Mason, and arguably Richmond and VCU

Former Big East members who quit the Conference
Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech, West Virginia

There are only three schools that are worth compromising these five key areas:
The first is UConn. However, it is contingent upon UConn dismantling, cancelling, and renouncing, in perpetuity, its disastrous FBS football program. The Big East can forgive UConn's lack of institutional fit if it gives up its football program.

The second is the University of Notre Dame. Notre Dame is already an institutional fit as a private school within the Big East's geographic footprint. Notre Dame will never give up its football program, but as an Independent, Notre Dame poses less of a flight risk. If the Irish ever decide that the ACC is not for them, the Big East may be willing to overlook their past transgressions.

The third is Duke, for obvious reasons. If Duke ever called the Big East with intent to explore leaving the ACC, you better believe they'd pick up the phone.

Adding any of those three schools would require, as a prerequisite, a heretofore unforeseen titanic shift in the college sports landscape. Adding any school other than those three will likely not grow the pie to a large enough size to justify the existing conference members taking a smaller slice (i.e., 8% of a watermelon is better than 10% of a grape).

Therefore, stay at 10, and wait for the other conferences to eat each other. Then, many years down the line, you have the option to add a school that got left behind...like a UConn. Like a Temple. Like a Wake Forest.

This possibly the most cogent post ever made on this topic.

[Bill Marsh]

So, Kirk, you're saying that if BU, Fordham, Richmond, Dayton, or St Louis pulled a Butler and went to a bunch of tournaments for a decade or so, including 2 finals, they wouldn't be considered for the reasons you stated?

BTW, who did you have in mind when you mentioned backstabbing the Big East?

In order for Wake or Duke to become available, the ACC would have to disband since neither of them are voluntarily leaving that conference. With the instability in the Big XII, I don't see any way that the ACC is at risk of collapsing. Same for Norte Dame, who is far more likely to bring their football into the ACC than to leave.

The real question is not what the Big East wants, but what Fox wants because without the Fox money, the Big East is in a whole different world. If Fox comes to the BE presidents and says that a bigger audience is required for the relationship to continue, the presidents will vote to expand. And they will suddenly become very open to candidates proposed by Fox. Unless of course they can find another interested network or the whole media model changes, which is certainly possible.

[stever20]

did he really just say that VCU has inconsistent/bad basketball? What planet have you been on? If VCU had been private, they would have been the 1st choice of the Big East when formed. Period the end.

Also would really say Temple and Cincy have no business in that grouping at all whatsoever. And Dayton probably doesn't belong there either.

Oh, and you forgot St Bonnie's in that bad basketball grouping

[DeltaV]

So, Kirk, you're saying that if BU, Fordham, Richmond, Dayton, or St Louis pulled a Butler and went to a bunch of tournaments for a decade or so, including 2 finals, they wouldn't be considered for the reasons you stated?

I think that is why we stay at 10 for now. If someone goes crazy and pulls a Butler, then they get in. Hell; that is probably the whole reason why Butler is in the Big East (and just knocked us off). But we sit back and wait for the 'offer we can't refuse' to come to us...be it an A10 team, a P5 team who decides to drop football, or a transportation breakthrough that makes the left coast not as far away.

[scoscox]

did he really just say that VCU has inconsistent/bad basketball? What planet have you been on? If VCU had been private, they would have been the 1st choice of the Big East when formed. Period the end.

Also would really say Temple and Cincy have no business in that grouping at all whatsoever. And Dayton probably doesn't belong there either.

Oh, and you forgot St Bonnie's in that bad basketball grouping

Dayton hasn't exactly been the model of consistency, but agree totally about Temple and UC. Way off the mark on VCU though. The 2011 tournament was the first and only time they've ever made it past the second round. Giving them more credit than they deserve there.

[Edrick]

Saint Louis fans discussing whether or not their team is the worst ever, some projecting only 4 wins this year.

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.ph ... eam-since/

SLU has won as many NCAA Tournament games in their history (since 1952) as Villanova won last spring.

SLU ---> awful

[stever20]

did he really just say that VCU has inconsistent/bad basketball? What planet have you been on? If VCU had been private, they would have been the 1st choice of the Big East when formed. Period the end.

Also would really say Temple and Cincy have no business in that grouping at all whatsoever. And Dayton probably doesn't belong there either.

Oh, and you forgot St Bonnie's in that bad basketball grouping

Dayton hasn't exactly been the model of consistency, but agree totally about Temple and UC. Way off the mark on VCU though. The 2011 tournament was the first and only time they've ever made it past the second round. Giving them more credit than they deserve there.

VCU though has 15 NCAA appearances. 13 wins. Bottom line, if VCU was private, they would have been in the Big East when the league reformed. They just are not in the same realm at all as schools like SLU, Drake, Northeastern, Boston U, Detroit, Davidson, Duquesne, Richmond, GW, or George Mason.