Conference Realignment Thread v. 2016

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Another excellent post by Bill Marsh.

Posters who believe that Connecticut’s elected officials will allow UConn to sacrifice their football program in order to join the Big East are overlooking two very important factors:

1. The pride of an entire state in its flagship college football program (which cannot be evaluated financially).

2. The economic impact on the state as a whole (which can be evaluated financially).

New Report Touts UConn’s Impact On State Economy – September 17, 2014

The University of Connecticut had a $3.4 billion impact on the state’s economy in 2013, according to an economic report paid for by the school and conducted by Pittsburgh-based consulting firm Tripp Umbach.

Gov. Dannel P. Malloy and UConn President Susan Herbst released the report at a Wednesday press conference held in UConn’s Graduate Business Learning Center in Hartford.

“What this shows is something that many people have probably sensed all along — that UConn is a vital part of Connecticut’s economy,” Herbst said.

Paul Umbach, the firm’s senior principal, said the report tries to quantify the economic activity the state would lose if UConn did not exist. The report concludes that the university has a direct impact of $1.5 billion and an indirect impact of $1.9 billion.

In a per-capita comparison with other states’ flagship universities, “it is an impressive economic impact,” he said. Umbach said UConn “packs a lot of punch”.

The governor said it makes sense for the university to have commissioned the nearly $50,000 study.

“It’s important for the people of Connecticut to understand just how vital the University of Connecticut is to economic activity,” he said.

UConn touts its economic contribution but touches off a political dustup – September 17, 2014

The University of Connecticut outlined its significant impact on the state’s economy in a report released Wednesday, but it immediately became the center of a partisan dispute in Connecticut’s gubernatorial campaign.

Democratic Governor Dannel P. Malloy joined UConn officials in Hartford Wednesday morning to celebrate the report, which concluded that spending by the state’s flagship university generated $3.4 billion worth of economic activity – about 1.5 percent of the state’s economy – in the 2012-13 fiscal year, and is poised to do more in the future.

But Greenwich businessman Tom Foley, the GOP gubernatorial nominee, charged Connecticut’s flagship university with funding an inappropriate “political puff piece” less than two months before the election, to help the Democratic governor’s campaign.

On November 4, 2014, Governor Dannel P. Malloy was re-elected. In any event, UConn isn’t the worst ‘offender’ when it comes to subsidies:

UConn's athletic budget much larger than other Big 12 expansion hopefuls – August 22, 2016

Here are the USA Today figures of the top 20 non-Power-5 schools, with athletic budget and school subsidy. The subsidy gives you an idea how much revenue the departments generate (by subtracting) but also give you an idea how much the school is committed to athletic success.

1. Connecticut • $72 million ($28M subsidy) • American Athletic Conference • FBS • enrolment: 31,000
9. James Madison • $44 million ($35M subsidy) • Colonial Athletic Association • FCS • enrolment: 21,000

[Hoya Hoya Hoya]

Until UCONN drops to FCS this isn't even a debate

I don't care if their buyout is 1B to leave

[SJHooper]

Until UCONN drops to FCS this isn't even a debate

I don't care if their buyout is 1B to leave

This does not make sense to me. The WORST case scenario with UConn joining us (obviously if they do they will have to agree to a massive exit fee) is making tons of money and going back to the 10 we have now that we have succeeded with. So how again is this bad? The worst case is we get richer and they leave. How could you not take that? If they join us and we assume they leave in 8 years (or whenever), what is the downside? Recruiting? Lavin did just fine recruiting with SJ in the old Big East with UConn present. Having a public institution? So what? They play football? So? They either park it elsewhere, lower to FCS, or abandon it. They leave if P5 wants them? So what? We get tons of exit fee money and we are back where we started...which was great to begin with.

It seems to me the only reason Big East fans wouldn't want UConn is out of spite not logic. Who knows? Maybe they NEVER get accepted to the B1G in 8 yrs...maybe they never get into a P5 conference and drop football eventually. That would mean they stay long-term in the Big East. Much crazier things have happened. There is zero interest in college football in the Northeast unless it's a front-running fan i.e. Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State and even then it's rare to see huge college football fans at all in the tri-state. You have to understand that these Texas schools do not want UConn football either.

[stever20]

Until UCONN drops to FCS this isn't even a debate

I don't care if their buyout is 1B to leave

maybe to you, but if Fox has anything to do with it, you are wrong. And it's obvious based on media day that the conference isn't distancing themselves from UConn at all.

[Xudash]

David and Bill, excellent insights into this situation.

David, your point about what happened with UAB and funding is spot on.

Bill, though I had glossed over the notion of strategic value, you provided the very specific areas where UCONN wants to project itself moving forward.

If nothing comes for them from this bumbling Big XII media circus, and regardless of your good points, it's going to be a bumpy ride for UCONN for years.

[Xudash]

And then I see this:

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-football/hc-uconn-big-12-expansion-1016-20161013-story.html

And we find a key answer to one question: how much Big East exit fee money do they have left coming to them:

The seven non-football schools from the conference were allowed to keep the Big East name and inherit Madison Square Garden as the host of their postseason men's basketball tournament. But the cost was profound. The schools left their former conference partners — UConn, South Florida and Cincinnati — with more than $100 million to share, but that money is drying up soon. UConn gets $5 million this year and next year before the payout ends.

[Bill Marsh]

David and Bill, excellent insights into this situation.

David, your point about what happened with UAB and funding is spot on.

Bill, though I had glossed over the notion of strategic value, you provided the very specific areas where UCONN wants to project itself moving forward.

If nothing comes for them from this bumbling Big XII media circus, and regardless of your good points, it's going to be a bumpy ride for UCONN for years.

I agree that it will be a bumpy ride. They will have to pursue the same path as Louisville did for 22 years, the same path that TCU and Utah did for many years. You're certainly right that this is the choice they face.

My only point is that this can't be analyzed as though we're talking about a minor league sports franchise. UConn thinks of itself as a public Ivy and has been referred to as such in a number of publications. To continue to pursue that path of excellence they want to affiliate with other top tier public research universities. Those schools are almost entirely committed to excellence in major college athletics - including football. The B1G is the most explicit about how integral this is to their larger mission as a University. If you join the B1G, you're also admitted to its research arm, the CIC.

All of the analysis in this thread portraying The Big East as the best option focuses exclusively on the athletic and revenue side of the equation. But to understand where the university is headed, you have to think like a University president, not like an AD. The president is not concerned exclusively about athletics. She is concerned about the larger institution and how athletics fits into that picture, how athletics can help or hinder the accomplishment of institutional goals.

One more point about the state's fiscal health. I invite anyone here to read up on how Pittsburgh went from being a deteriorated mill town after losing steel jobs in the '70's and '80's to becoming one of the most livable and economically successful cities in America. They didn't just cut spending. They looked to the future, figured out what would be the jobs of the future, and planned how to bring those jobs to the city. The University of Pittsburgh played a big role in turning the city around. Pittsburgh rebuilt the local economy by investing in high tech and health care research and innovation. CT is looking to do the same thing for its economy with UConn and the Human Genome Project. UConn is an asset, not a drain. They must invest in UConn if it is going to lead the way out of their current fiscal problems. It would not be wise for them to let such an asset decline. And they know that at the Governor's office just as well as they do at the UConn president's office.

[Xudash]

David and Bill, excellent insights into this situation.

David, your point about what happened with UAB and funding is spot on.

Bill, though I had glossed over the notion of strategic value, you provided the very specific areas where UCONN wants to project itself moving forward.

If nothing comes for them from this bumbling Big XII media circus, and regardless of your good points, it's going to be a bumpy ride for UCONN for years.

I agree that it will be a bumpy ride. They will have to pursue the same path as Louisville did for 22 years, the same path that TCU and Utah did for many years. You're certainly right that this is the choice they face.

My only point is that this can't be analyzed as though we're talking about a minor league sports franchise. UConn thinks of itself as a public Ivy and has been referred to as such in a number of publications. To continue to pursue that path of excellence they want to affiliate with other top tier public research universities. Those schools are almost entirely committed to excellence in major college athletics - including football. The B1G is the most explicit about how integral this is to their larger mission as a University. If you join the B1G, you're also admitted to its research arm, the CIC.

All of the analysis in this thread portraying The Big East as the best option focuses exclusively on the athletic and revenue side of the equation. But to understand where the university is headed, you have to think like a University president, not like an AD. The president is not concerned exclusively about athletics. She is concerned about the larger institution and how athletics fits into that picture, how athletics can help or hinder the accomplishment of institutional goals.

One more point about the state's fiscal health. I invite anyone here to read up on how Pittsburgh went from being a deteriorated mill town after losing steel jobs in the '70's and '80's to becoming one of the most livable and economically successful cities in America. They didn't just cut spending. They looked to the future, figured out what would be the jobs of the future, and planned how to bring those jobs to the city. The University of Pittsburgh played a big role in turning the city around. Pittsburgh rebuilt the local economy by investing in high tech and health care research and innovation. CT is looking to do the same thing for its economy with UConn and the Human Genome Project. UConn is an asset, not a drain. They must invest in UConn if it is going to lead the way out of their current fiscal problems. It would not be wise for them to let such an asset decline. And they know that at the Governor's office just as well as they do at the UConn president's office.

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to Pittsburgh. I lived there, too (was with Mellon for a number of years and then a Merrill Lynch sub, living in Upper St. Clair). What Pittsburgh did was extraordinary, as you pointed out, having been so heavily dependent on heavy industry/steel.

Connecticut has the luxury of having Yale fit into that development picture as well, I would think, but I certainly see where the state would point to its public flagship university to be a major economic driver for the future. With all that mentioned, and admitting that I haven't been close to it in a while now, the state otherwise seems to be making very bad decisions when it comes to economic policy that is focused on business retention and formation. They have to get ALL OF IT RIGHT in order to retain some of the neat new stuff they want to develop out of Storrs, or it will develop and then potentially drain out elsewhere.

p.s. I imagine a drive down or up the Merritt Parkway with the top down would be pretty nice right about now. I loved experiencing the fall season in New England, and the holiday season that followed it.

[DudeAnon]

Until UCONN drops to FCS this isn't even a debate

I don't care if their buyout is 1B to leave

This does not make sense to me. The WORST case scenario with UConn joining us (obviously if they do they will have to agree to a massive exit fee) is making tons of money and going back to the 10 we have now that we have succeeded with. So how again is this bad? The worst case is we get richer and they leave. How could you not take that? If they join us and we assume they leave in 8 years (or whenever), what is the downside? Recruiting? Lavin did just fine recruiting with SJ in the old Big East with UConn present. Having a public institution? So what? They play football? So? They either park it elsewhere, lower to FCS, or abandon it. They leave if P5 wants them? So what? We get tons of exit fee money and we are back where we started...which was great to begin with.

It seems to me the only reason Big East fans wouldn't want UConn is out of spite not logic. Who knows? Maybe they NEVER get accepted to the B1G in 8 yrs...maybe they never get into a P5 conference and drop football eventually. That would mean they stay long-term in the Big East. Much crazier things have happened. There is zero interest in college football in the Northeast unless it's a front-running fan i.e. Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State and even then it's rare to see huge college football fans at all in the tri-state. You have to understand that these Texas schools do not want UConn football either.

Ding ding ding. The UCONN to Big East scenario is very realistic and now has multiple reporters confirming it may be coming. All the talk against it seems to come from 1) UCONN fans who think they are too good for the Big East. 2) BE fans who have spite against UCONN. 3) Big East hopefuls who don't want UCONN taking their spot

[Bill Marsh]

David and Bill, excellent insights into this situation.

David, your point about what happened with UAB and funding is spot on.

Bill, though I had glossed over the notion of strategic value, you provided the very specific areas where UCONN wants to project itself moving forward.

If nothing comes for them from this bumbling Big XII media circus, and regardless of your good points, it's going to be a bumpy ride for UCONN for years.

I agree that it will be a bumpy ride. They will have to pursue the same path as Louisville did for 22 years, the same path that TCU and Utah did for many years. You're certainly right that this is the choice they face.

My only point is that this can't be analyzed as though we're talking about a minor league sports franchise. UConn thinks of itself as a public Ivy and has been referred to as such in a number of publications. To continue to pursue that path of excellence they want to affiliate with other top tier public research universities. Those schools are almost entirely committed to excellence in major college athletics - including football. The B1G is the most explicit about how integral this is to their larger mission as a University. If you join the B1G, you're also admitted to its research arm, the CIC.

All of the analysis in this thread portraying The Big East as the best option focuses exclusively on the athletic and revenue side of the equation. But to understand where the university is headed, you have to think like a University president, not like an AD. The president is not concerned exclusively about athletics. She is concerned about the larger institution and how athletics fits into that picture, how athletics can help or hinder the accomplishment of institutional goals.

One more point about the state's fiscal health. I invite anyone here to read up on how Pittsburgh went from being a deteriorated mill town after losing steel jobs in the '70's and '80's to becoming one of the most livable and economically successful cities in America. They didn't just cut spending. They looked to the future, figured out what would be the jobs of the future, and planned how to bring those jobs to the city. The University of Pittsburgh played a big role in turning the city around. Pittsburgh rebuilt the local economy by investing in high tech and health care research and innovation. CT is looking to do the same thing for its economy with UConn and the Human Genome Project. UConn is an asset, not a drain. They must invest in UConn if it is going to lead the way out of their current fiscal problems. It would not be wise for them to let such an asset decline. And they know that at the Governor's office just as well as they do at the UConn president's office.

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to Pittsburgh. I lived there, too (was with Mellon for a number of years and then a Merrill Lynch sub, living in Upper St. Clair). What Pittsburgh did was extraordinary, as you pointed out, having been so heavily dependent on heavy industry/steel.

Connecticut has the luxury of having Yale fit into that development picture as well, I would think, but I certainly see where the state would point to its public flagship university to be a major economic driver for the future. With all that mentioned, and admitting that I haven't been close to it in a while now, the state otherwise seems to be making very bad decisions when it comes to economic policy that is focused on business retention and formation. They have to get ALL OF IT RIGHT in order to retain some of the neat new stuff they want to develop out of Storrs, or it will develop and then potentially drain out elsewhere.

p.s. I imagine a drive down or up the Merritt Parkway with the top down would be pretty nice right about now. I loved experiencing the fall season in New England, and the holiday season that followed it.

XU Dash, I'd appreciate any insights you might have on why states like CT are experiencing the budget crises they are. I know that NJ is going through the same thing.declines

I know that the problem is almost entirely on the revenue side. A major factor is the decline in gas prices with an accompanying loss of state gas tax revenues. I think there have also been losses on investments due to Wall Street declines. Beyond that, I'm at a loss.

Thoughts?