Conference Realignment Thread v. 2016

[Jet915]

Big time football.

[admin]

I wondered if the prospect of joining the Big 12 would entice UCONN fans to attend football games to put a positive appearance on their program. I guess we have our answer.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Not being defensive, I'm just having some fun with you. And as I suspected, you seem to think I have an agenda to push. I don't.

I think this, "who are you a fan of?" stuff is silly. At 70, I'm not a fan of any school the way I was when I was 30. I'm a fan of good basketball and have a soft spot in my heart for the underdog Catholic schools and for Eastern basketball in general.

I hope I offer the perspective of someone who has lived through all of the changes in college hoops over the past 55 years since I attended my first college basketball games in the Garden. I tagged along when my brother was at Holy Cross and Jack "The Shot" Foley was star of the team and George Blaney was PG. I also got tickets to the Garden from my cousin who was a Vincentian priest, teaching at St. John's, and my uncle, a NYC cop who loved college basketball. My earliest memories of St. John's teams I saw in person were the Tony Jackson teams with LeRoy Ellis, Willie Hall, Ivan Kovacs, and Ken McIntyre.

In the interests of full disclosure, I grew up in Brooklyn and fell in love with basketball once I was able to reach the hoop with my shot. I played as long as I could at school, in leagues, and at playgrounds. Once the level of competition was beyond my ability, I satisfied my love of the game by becoming a gym rat both in the stands and playing for fun.

I went to Manhattan College and was a season ticket holder for their games in the Garden even after I graduated & while I was still living in the City. Back then Eastern basketball was more regional and mostly independent, so Manhattan could be competitive in a way that it is not now.

Even as a fan, there were players from other teams whom I would admire and I had the good fortune to see lots of top players because tickets to the Garden got you into a double header. I loved Barry Kramer and Mal Graham of NYU. Both went on to become lawyers and I think judges. I learned to love the St. Joe's fans as they stood up to sing "The Hawk will never die" with their team hopelessly behind with 2 minutes to go. I saw Elvin Hayes play in the Garden and Rick Mount shoot lights out there. I saw Texas Western lose to Manhattan in its last game of the season, it's last loss before a huge winning streak the next year in its historic run to the NC. I fell in Iove with Providence's Jimmie Walker and thought his teammate Mike Riordan was gritty even befor he later played for the Knicks. I later fell in love with Ernie D as a sophomore as I watched him almost single handedly beat a very good Manhattan team with great passes and timely shots before he became a big time scorer. In spite of him beating "my team", I loved his game and still think he was the best pure college point guard I ever saw.

I could go on, but I tell you all that because I love the game more than I love any one program and I have 50+ years of stored up memories. In 1974, Sports Illustrated picked Manhattan #8 in the country, preseason. A season long injury to star player, Bill Campion, ruined that season. Maybe it's because Manhattan never again reached those heights that I found my rooting interest expanding to include anyone from the East who could challenge the big nationa basketball "factories". I always felt that we in the Easst were underappreciated and disrespected.

So, I was delighted when the Big East was formed since it seemed like a possible vehicle for that recognition and Glory. By that time I was living in CT, so watching BE basketball meant getting Huskies tickets and of course I had a rooting interest there, but it was not exclusive the way it is for alums.

In 1986, my oldest daughter entered Providence just in time for their Final Four run. We had followed that team the year before and loved watching what Billy Donovan and the rest of the team was becoming. We were hooked on the Friars for life. Good thing because our youngest went to PC as well and was there for the Shamgod run to the Elite 8 in '97. In between, our middle daughter went to BC just in time for us to get on board for their run to the Elite 8 in '94 when Billy Curley put that team on his back. My son went to Fordham 25 years ago when they had some pretty good teams. The Rams didn't steal our hearts but they did give us a chance to see Lionel Simmons up close.

Hopefully this is more than anyone here wanted to know about my background and will never ask again for fear of provoking another long post. Unfortunately message boards sometimes involve ad hominem discussions, thereby drifting away from the actual topic at hand. It's my belief that when a poster becomes the topic of discussion, we all lose. That's why I've avoided responding to such comments in the past. Hopefully this will put it to bed.

...And another example of why I appreciate BillM on this board. He often gives a perspective that none of us could provide. He clearly understands to legacy and history of urban Eastern college hoops, which the BE brand was built on. Kudos...

[Bill Marsh]

Not being defensive, I'm just having some fun with you. And as I suspected, you seem to think I have an agenda to push. I don't.

I think this, "who are you a fan of?" stuff is silly. At 70, I'm not a fan of any school the way I was when I was 30. I'm a fan of good basketball and have a soft spot in my heart for the underdog Catholic schools and for Eastern basketball in general.

I hope I offer the perspective of someone who has lived through all of the changes in college hoops over the past 55 years since I attended my first college basketball games in the Garden. I tagged along when my brother was at Holy Cross and Jack "The Shot" Foley was star of the team and George Blaney was PG. I also got tickets to the Garden from my cousin who was a Vincentian priest, teaching at St. John's, and my uncle, a NYC cop who loved college basketball. My earliest memories of St. John's teams I saw in person were the Tony Jackson teams with LeRoy Ellis, Willie Hall, Ivan Kovacs, and Ken McIntyre.

In the interests of full disclosure, I grew up in Brooklyn and fell in love with basketball once I was able to reach the hoop with my shot. I played as long as I could at school, in leagues, and at playgrounds. Once the level of competition was beyond my ability, I satisfied my love of the game by becoming a gym rat both in the stands and playing for fun.

I went to Manhattan College and was a season ticket holder for their games in the Garden even after I graduated & while I was still living in the City. Back then Eastern basketball was more regional and mostly independent, so Manhattan could be competitive in a way that it is not now.

Even as a fan, there were players from other teams whom I would admire and I had the good fortune to see lots of top players because tickets to the Garden got you into a double header. I loved Barry Kramer and Mal Graham of NYU. Both went on to become lawyers and I think judges. I learned to love the St. Joe's fans as they stood up to sing "The Hawk will never die" with their team hopelessly behind with 2 minutes to go. I saw Elvin Hayes play in the Garden and Rick Mount shoot lights out there. I saw Texas Western lose to Manhattan in its last game of the season, it's last loss before a huge winning streak the next year in its historic run to the NC. I fell in Iove with Providence's Jimmie Walker and thought his teammate Mike Riordan was gritty even befor he later played for the Knicks. I later fell in love with Ernie D as a sophomore as I watched him almost single handedly beat a very good Manhattan team with great passes and timely shots before he became a big time scorer. In spite of him beating "my team", I loved his game and still think he was the best pure college point guard I ever saw.

I could go on, but I tell you all that because I love the game more than I love any one program and I have 50+ years of stored up memories. In 1974, Sports Illustrated picked Manhattan #8 in the country, preseason. A season long injury to star player, Bill Campion, ruined that season. Maybe it's because Manhattan never again reached those heights that I found my rooting interest expanding to include anyone from the East who could challenge the big nationa basketball "factories". I always felt that we in the Easst were underappreciated and disrespected.

So, I was delighted when the Big East was formed since it seemed like a possible vehicle for that recognition and Glory. By that time I was living in CT, so watching BE basketball meant getting Huskies tickets and of course I had a rooting interest there, but it was not exclusive the way it is for alums.

In 1986, my oldest daughter entered Providence just in time for their Final Four run. We had followed that team the year before and loved watching what Billy Donovan and the rest of the team was becoming. We were hooked on the Friars for life. Good thing because our youngest went to PC as well and was there for the Shamgod run to the Elite 8 in '97. In between, our middle daughter went to BC just in time for us to get on board for their run to the Elite 8 in '94 when Billy Curley put that team on his back. My son went to Fordham 25 years ago when they had some pretty good teams. The Rams didn't steal our hearts but they did give us a chance to see Lionel Simmons up close.

Hopefully this is more than anyone here wanted to know about my background and will never ask again for fear of provoking another long post. Unfortunately message boards sometimes involve ad hominem discussions, thereby drifting away from the actual topic at hand. It's my belief that when a poster becomes the topic of discussion, we all lose. That's why I've avoided responding to such comments in the past. Hopefully this will put it to bed.

...And another example of why I appreciate BillM on this board. He often gives a perspective that none of us could provide. He clearly understands to legacy and history of urban Eastern college hoops, which the BE brand was built on. Kudos...

Thank you, Gumby, for the kind words. Always appreciate your perspective as well.

[Bill Marsh]

I wondered if the prospect of joining the Big 12 would entice UCONN fans to attend football games to put a positive appearance on their program. I guess we have our answer.

Certainly reflects poorly on them. The program has been so down.

They drew 40,000 in the Bog East against teams that meant something to their fans. Maine is a renditional New England rival, but is no longer at the same level. Big XII opponents would be big time, but are not schools that anyone here cares about with the likely exceptions of WV, Texas, and OK. I'm not even sure about WV any more.

Realignment has not been helpful to Eastern sports. BC has declined since joining the ACC. Syracuse and Pitt haven't been helped by the move.

[gtmoBlue]

Great post Bill. Nice tour down a personal history. While some may differ in opinion on a given topic (incl me), definitely respect your views and perspective. Keep on keepin' on.

[Bill Marsh]

Great post Bill. Nice tour down a personal history. While some may differ in opinion on a given topic (incl me), definitely respect your views and perspective. Keep on keepin' on.

Thanks, Blue. It's the differences of opinion that keep it interesting - and usually the ones I learn the most from.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Memphis axed. Temple cut. The list is trimmed further for Big 12 expansion.

With Tulane, Rice, and Air Force making the cut, it's a major taste of humble pie for a number of posters on fan sites that ridiculed other programs/universities and inaccurately propped up their own. It's certainly a call-back to 2012 when certain (then) American schools were certain and adamant that the C-USA callups would be receiving the Big East name, MSG, tournament credits, etc. Sometimes personal desire get in the way of facts.

[stever20]

Memphis axed. Temple cut. The list is trimmed further for Big 12 expansion.

With Tulane, Rice, and Air Force making the cut, it's a major taste of humble pie for a number of posters on fan sites that ridiculed other programs/universities and inaccurately propped up their own. It's certainly a call-back to 2012 when certain (then) American schools were certain and adamant that the C-USA callups would be receiving the Big East name, MSG, tournament credits, etc. Sometimes personal desire get in the way of facts.

um, those schools did get the tournament credits from the schools like Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, WVU, etc. And the AAC schools also did get almost all of the exit fee money.

[marquette]

Memphis axed. Temple cut. The list is trimmed further for Big 12 expansion.

With Tulane, Rice, and Air Force making the cut, it's a major taste of humble pie for a number of posters on fan sites that ridiculed other programs/universities and inaccurately propped up their own. It's certainly a call-back to 2012 when certain (then) American schools were certain and adamant that the C-USA callups would be receiving the Big East name, MSG, tournament credits, etc. Sometimes personal desire get in the way of facts.

um, those schools did get the tournament credits from the schools like Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, WVU, etc. And the AAC schools also did get almost all of the exit fee money.

An absolute bargain in exchange for the Big East name, our tourney credits, a much better tv deal (we'd be lucky to be getting $1 mil each in the AAC), MSG, first class citizenship in a power conference, and the freedom to choose our own destiny.