Conference Realignment Thread v. 2016

[Omaha1]

The idea that Dayton is more valuable than teams located in NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., Milwaukee and Cincinnati is hilarious.

It's unlikely that anyone outside of Dayton believes these numbers have any value at all. Why Flyers fans come here to shove garbage like this down our throats all the time is beyond me.

Not understanding the UD hate. Not even sure Fieldhouse Flyer (if that's whom you meant) is a UD fan judging from his past posts which seem very fair & supportive of the BE. UD is one of the most valuable college BB programs (and frankly more valuable than many BE programs) because the school owns their arena outright providing them a great profit margin, and they have a following who loves the team, and who put their money where their mouth is. We travel anywhere anytime to support our players.

So in keeping this short, we don't think of ourselves as a UConn or ND. But if your honest with yourselves and were looking to own a college "franchise" investing your own cash, you could choose a far worse investment than UD.

But you do understand that any value a potential addition might have to the Big East has nothing to do with whether they own their arena or not right? I get that might increase their "value" but that value means nothing to anyone because the school isn't for sale and you're comparing apples to oranges against schools that have better arenas (read - NBA venues) anyway. In sum, I wouldn't choose to marry an a ugly wife just because she owned her own home.

[DudeAnon]

Not understanding the UD hate. Not even sure Fieldhouse Flyer (if that's whom you meant) is a UD fan judging from his past posts which seem very fair & supportive of the BE.

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

Omaha,

Your missing my point. I'm not here as a non-member guest bashing any BE program, nor spewing any delusional comments touting the UD program as having a game changing presence if added. And I see little evidence of my UD brethern doing that either to be honest. My post was trying to educate those that read with disbelief and for some reason contempt those articles listing the financial values of MBB programs. The WSJ, Forbes and others make it very clear that the value (in business cash terms) of the UD program is a top 30 program. We are a vibrant healthy program.

Can't you acknowledge my simple financial point without feeling the need to then disparage our program? Likely you were chosen over us as the last in - I congratulate you and wish your university well.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

If an analytical methodology does not produce the results that you want or expect, that does not mean that the methodology is incorrect. Attempting to discredit a unknown methodology solely because you don’t like the results is borderline ‘silly’. Forbes obviously uses a very different methodology than that used in the WSJ valuations, resulting in far lower Team Values than published in the WSJ.

The WSJ, Forbes and others make it very clear that the value (in business cash terms) of the UD program is a top 30 program.

Dayton was in Wall Street Journal’s Top 25 in 2015 and 2016, and in Forbes Top 25 in 2014, 2015, and 2016.

College Basketball's Most Valuable Teams - 2016 - Forbes - March 14, 2016

To figure out our list of the sport’s most valuable programs we look at three key areas for which college basketball’s top teams generate value: their universities, athletic departments, and conferences. University value comes from academic spending, including both player scholarships and other university support, while value to the athletic department is measured by the basketball team profits that go toward funding non-revenue sports like swimming or softball. Lastly, conference value comes from success in the NCAA Tournament; every non-championship tournament game played grants a team’s conference a “unit” that earns an annual payout over a six-year period.

17. Dayton – Team Value: $ 11.9 million. 2015 Revenue: $ 12.9 million. 2015 Profit: $ 7.2 million.

19. Xavier – Team Value: $ 11.5 million. 2015 Revenue: $ 12.1 million. 2015 Profit: $ 6.6 million.

20. Marquette – Team Value: $ 11.4 million. 2015 Revenue: $ 15.3 million. 2015 Profit: $ 6.3 million.

[Omaha1]

Omaha,

Your missing my point. I'm not here as a non-member guest bashing any BE program, nor spewing any delusional comments touting the UD program as having a game changing presence if added. And I see little evidence of my UD brethern doing that either to be honest. My post was trying to educate those that read with disbelief and for some reason contempt those articles listing the financial values of MBB programs. The WSJ, Forbes and others make it very clear that the value (in business cash terms) of the UD program is a top 30 program. We are a vibrant healthy program.

Can't you acknowledge my simple financial point without feeling the need to then disparage our program? Likely you were chosen over us as the last in - I congratulate you and wish your university well.

Sure, if you can acknowledge that your value is artifically elevated by owning your own arena and getting the proceeds from concessions etc. Can you tell me what the value of the UD program is without those ancillary benefits so we can compare them directly to the other Big East programs? Does anyone really think the UD program is worth more than the combined values of Creighton, Butler, and Seton Hall? Of course not, yet this would suggest they are. I'm guessing without the arena, UD is probably a $10-20M valuation - is that fair?

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

Glad to see your starting to appreciate my point. I actually agree with your statement if you'd drop the term "artificially". Clearly we agree the value of the UD program is enhanced by managing debt and having a well respected MBB venue available as an owned asset. There is nothing artifical about a university being or not being encumbered by great debt. It can impact that program, their facilities, ticket prices, etc. We're a small private midwestern Catholic school- please don't feel the need to disparage us as we're not all that different from many of your BE members. Remember- we're not comparing the "brand" of the school, league, its RPI, etc. I really was making a simple educational point to readers of this thread that UD's financial worth is top 30 in nation- that's all. And in recent years our MBB performance has been also. These are things we need not argue about. Enjoy your upcoming season.

[marquette]

It's artificial because UD will not sell the building and no one would buy it for what it's worth because no one else in town needs an arena that size. So yes, the property itself has value, but that doesn't mean anything when you have to maintain it and pay for the staff to run it. Marquette's last published lease at the Bradley Center was under $20,000 per game. We do not pay to maintain it, we do not pay the staff, we do receive a portion of the concessions and merchandise sales. So yes, it is very nice for UD to own their arena but it really isn't as valuable as the sticker price tag and probably has a significant cost to operate.

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/st ... ily39.html

[DudeAnon]

I really was making a simple educational point to readers of this thread that UD's financial worth is top 30 in nation- that's all. And in recent years our MBB performance has been also. These are things we need not argue about. Enjoy your upcoming season.

And yet it still didn't get you an invite to the Big East. Enjoy those UD Arena dollars. Truly the finest 50 year old building in Montgomery County.

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

It's artificial because UD will not sell the building and no one would buy it for what it's worth because no one else in town needs an arena that size. So yes, the property itself has value, but that doesn't mean anything when you have to maintain it and pay for the staff to run it. Marquette's last published lease at the Bradley Center was under $20,000 per game. We do not pay to maintain it, we do not pay the staff, we do receive a portion of the concessions and merchandise sales. So yes, it is very nice for UD to own their arena but it really isn't as valuable as the sticker price tag and probably has a significant cost to operate.

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/st ... ily39.html

I apologize to the readers of this board- its not my style to be argumentative and I read HLOH daily because I do love BB and have followed many of your programs for years. Certainly longer than most of you reading this have been alive. So this will be my last response to the topic of MBB financial value.... and am not going to comment on my X friend's post above- I guess our school's fan bases are incapable of having a civil conversaton.

The financial strength of the UD program is no aberration. Those of you that know UD understand that. For you that do not- All the expenses of the arena are caught and are simply outweighed by the tremendous revenue of the team. The arena has been upgraded continuously over the years, and has the team amenities that any P5 MBB team would appreciate. Incidentally it's been rated as the most difficult place to play in the A10 as recently as last month (ESPN: "This isn't an arena. It's a horror flick for opposing teams"). It has also hosted more NCAA games than any venue in history. So the top 30 financial ranking is not artificial as there is no hypothetical inflated market value listed as an asset. And its on campus and not a public bus ride away.

[Xudash]

This recent conversation seemed to crank up when a Johnnies fan accurately and rightfully pointed out that UCONN would be 100 times more valuable to the Big East than Dayton.

Then someone who links and quotes his way to a solid Muddy Waters impersonation goes off about UD's financial valuation.

BTW, that is at least somewhat entertaining, as UD is still collecting tournament money that was earned by Xavier. Beyond that, Xavier had to work and is still working its way through the transition from the A10 to the Big East, given the surrender of its tournament unit monies, transition fees, etc.

UD, through Archie, has become recently successful as a mid-major. But UD IS a mid-major. And UD's financial numbers are relevant to and mostly come from people in and around Dayton.

When BRAND is factored in, UD leaves this conversation entirely; it can't and doesn't compare to any Big East program.

You guys certainly have a right to be proud of your program, but you also need to consider how inconsequential it is to most of the people who share in this Big East message board.