Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[Know Nothing]

I have a fun idea for expansion. The Big East could absorb all of the Catholic Schools from the Atlantic 10 along with Loyola(MVC) and Detroit(Horizon). This could be done to help the RPI by using promotion and relegation policy similar to that of European Soccer. There would still be two separate conferences based on performance from the previous season. The Big East would be the A League, while the other conference could serve as a B league. There could still be a 16 game round robin for each conference with 2 cross over games that didn't count in the league standings. At the end of each season the bottom two schools in the Big East would be relegated to the B league for the next season while the two top finishing schools in the B league would be promoted. It would look something like this:

Big East
1. Villanova
2. Xavier
3. Providence
4. Georgetown
5. Creighton
6. Seton Hall
7. Marquette
8. DePaul
9. St. John's


Lower League
1. Dayton
2. St. Joseph's
3. St. Bonaventure
4. Duquesne
5. Loyola (from MVC)
6. St. Louis
7. Fordham
8. Detroit (from Horizon)
9. La Salle

If the season were over today, DePaul and St. John's would be relegated to the B league for next season while Dayton and St. Joe's would be promoted. This would help the Big East by maximizing its RPI. Low performing teams like DePaul and St. John's (currently #148 and #198) would be replaced with better performing teams like Dayton and St. Joe's (currently #10 and #35). This could add some drama to the B.E. regular season for schools not competing for an NCAA bid. It would also be good for the relegated schools on a short term basis because it would match them against competition they can beat and use as a springboard for rebuilding. Plus there will always be the lower league's automatic NCAA tourney bid to play for. Yes, it will lead to a 1st round mauling at the hands of a 3 seed, but it is at least a post-season birth to build on. The lower league could also play its conference tournament at the Garden earlier in the week(or simultaneously?) to increase attendance for the BET.

The deal would bring in more major tv markets to the conference like Detroit, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Oleans, NY while simultaneously adding a greater presence in NYC, Philly, and Chicago. The Big East could sell Fox or other networks on the potential of major NCAA basketball in new markets for TV deal purposes without suffering from the schools poor performances on the court.

Now before anyone rips me too much, I realize this is very unlikely to happen. The NCAA would throw a fit and the division of television revenue would be a nightmare. Plus I doubt Villanova, St. John's, or DePaul would like potential in-conference opponents in their cities. Also in this fun scenario, Butler was removed from the conference by the USCCB and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

I like Know Nothings idea- very impracticle but outside the box. Similar to the English Premier Soccer league where they demote their worst teams each season.

I'd like to share a NCAA.com article I found on UD Pride. I've said before that as a guest of the HLOH I'd refrain from posting on threads unless UD was a relevent topic. So please indulge me as I point out there is a contribution we'd bring to the table as a member (yes I know X fans - there is no current chance of expansion, this is just for fun) that is hard to quantify- the fun factor. Evan as conference cellar dwellars (which we would not be) we'd be a road destination that all of you would find entertaining. UD simply bleeds BB and always will. This article talks about the 5 BB venues in the nation that one should not miss. Along with UD is one of your own. BTW UD has begun a study to review options at improving the venerable UD Arena- UD BB will do what it takes to remain relevent regardless of it's conference affiliation.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men ... experience

[Xudash]

I like Know Nothings idea- very impracticle but outside the box. Similar to the English Premier Soccer league where they demote their worst teams each season.

I'd like to share a NCAA.com article I found on UD Pride. I've said before that as a guest of the HLOH I'd refrain from posting on threads unless UD was a relevent topic. So please indulge me as I point out there is a contribution we'd bring to the table as a member (yes I know X fans - there is no current chance of expansion, this is just for fun) that is hard to quantify- the fun factor. Evan as conference cellar dwellars (which we would not be) we'd be a road destination that all of you would find entertaining. UD simply bleeds BB and always will. This article talks about the 5 BB venues in the nation that one should not miss. Along with UD is one of your own. BTW UD has begun a study to review options at improving the venerable UD Arena- UD BB will do what it takes to remain relevent regardless of it's conference affiliation.

You may have missed it, but we've been informed that UD has zero interest in joining the Big East.

UD's administration apparently is very happy to remain in the A10, plans to remain relevant there, and believes UD to be above any national/global media company, and despises Fox, in particular.

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

XUdash, can't we all just get along?

[Xudash]

XUdash, can't we all just get along?

Absolutely!

I just wasn't aware of whether or not you knew one of your own informed us that UD doesn't need the Big East, doesn't want the Big East over the A10, and hates Fox, and that UD doesn't have to bow to any media company.

Otherwise, you may want to step back the idea that UD Arena is venerable (I do give you guys high marks for your abundantly confident perception of the UD basketball program).

[pki1998]

XUdash, can't we all just get along?

Absolutely!

I just wasn't aware of whether or not you knew one of your own informed us that UD doesn't need the Big East, doesn't want the Big East over the A10, and hates Fox, and that UD doesn't have to bow to any media company.

Otherwise, you may want to step back the idea that UD Arena is venerable (I do give you guys high marks for your abundantly confident perception of the UD basketball program).

Xudash,

I went through all of Flyer Fanatics post, he has never acted like he didn't want UD in the Big East. His post have always been reasonable. I've also noticed that you have attacked him on must of his post. It's probably not fair to attack him everytime he post because there are crazy UD fans out there. Just like the crazy UD fans that continue to say they don't want to be in the Big East because of Fox or some other stupid reason, make there fan base look bad, your attacks on reasonable Dayton posters make our fan base look bad.

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

Thanks Pki, it's all good, our respective fan bases do have an edge with each other. As I'm a guest you will not see me post on the HLOH unless UD is a relevant topic, I do monitor this thread to gauge your members reaction to us because it's interesting. Were largely unknown to the East coast schools fans but the Midwest members know us well.

[Xudash]

Agreed re no expansion. We have an awesome league of terrific schools. If it aint broke...

To the moderators: - i wish you would post this - I come in peace

As a lifelong UD follower, I can honestly tell you that the vast majority of UD fans and the admin are really not interested in joining the BE
On the surface it seems surprising, however UD has finally built the team and has the top tier coach that if he leaves, will pave the way
for another quality coach to follow. UD gets plenty of national exposure through the FIRST FOUR and exposure and virtually every game is broadcast on ESPN, NBC and CBS
If they joined the the BE they would also have to cater to the whims of FOX. The UD administration is not a big fan of that network, or any other network pulling strings ( the sports and news divisions.)

I do respect the BE and XU, and it is an interesting league, thats why i frequent this board, however honestly UD admin and fans like where they are
right now. 3 years ago, they would have had a different opinion.

I wasn't attacking him. I was wondering whether or not he was aware of the fact that UD - a majority of its fans and its Admin - are really not interested in joining the BE, and that the UD Admin. does not like Fox, according to one of his fellow fans (the above post).

Secondly, I don't respond to every post he puts up, and, in fact, have been complimentary of him in the past. So you can stop with the fabricated bullsh--. He is very careful to not incite spats here. But putting up yet another post about UD Arena - and I'm sorry UD, but you should be more careful, because that arena is not venerable, nor do most people here care one iota about it - just isn't necessary.

Finally, though I truly view UD as being in Xavier's rear view mirror, their time on this board is a little excessive, and they blew it with me when one of them started false rumors about Xavier being in some kind of financial distress.

By now, we all know each candidate program's strengths and weaknesses. Where these guys really tend to soil themselves is in the fact that they overstate their value, due to having an inflated view of their program's worth, and they're rather redundant in doing so.

This is a Big East board. DO NOT attempt to give me posting instructions on this board when it comes to UD fans posting here.

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

Hey XUDash, I'm really not here to upset you and understand we can be a bit prideful on our BB history- especially to younger fans who aren't aware of our history way back in the 50's and 60's. But UD fans don't like being dismissed as low level interlopers not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as your BE colleagues.

This is my last rebuttal to you on this board- as that's not polite from a guest. I want to clarify that all my posts (and occasional future posts) are only related to others bringing up UD (generally in this expansion thred or when we play a BE team). I think that's fair don't you?

In closing my post above was to mention we have a perfectly fine stadium with a special history. But it's the UD fans devotion and passion that makes UD a great member of any conference.

All good between us and perhaps we'll be able to talk BB soon- maybe during the tournament. Nothing but good luck to X.

[Xudash]

Hey XUDash, I'm really not here to upset you and understand we can be a bit prideful on our BB history- especially to younger fans who aren't aware of our history way back in the 50's and 60's. But UD fans don't like being dismissed as low level interlopers not even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as your BE colleagues.

This is my last rebuttal to you on this board- as that's not polite from a guest. I want to clarify that all my posts (and occasional future posts) are only related to others bringing up UD (generally in this expansion thred or when we play a BE team). I think that's fair don't you?

In closing my post above was to mention we have a perfectly fine stadium with a special history. But it's the UD fans devotion and passion that makes UD a great member of any conference.

All good between us and perhaps we'll be able to talk BB soon- maybe during the tournament. Nothing but good luck to X.

UDFF,

Firstly, you are civil when you post here and it's an open board, so you're certainly free to post here, especially when UD is brought up, which will typically happen in this thread.

Secondly, you don't upset me at all. I see UD as being in Xavier's rear view mirror. It's not like I find your comments threatening. As an example of that, I would take the Cintas Center over UD Arena and it isn't even close, especially as Xavier is now into its $25 million enhancement plan for it. The Cintas Center is constantly brought up as being one of the top facilities in the country. The CC is too new to be venerable. UD Arena isn't venerable. Hinkle Hall is venerable. The Palestra is venerable. A dated place (with improvements that can only go so far) that was built in the 60's simply isn't going to make the cut. You have your opinion on that and I have mine, and I think I have a pretty good idea where others would come out on that survey question.

Thirdly, UD doesn't register with most of the BE fans on this site, particularly the C7 crowd. UD has become one of the top programs in a watered down, but still decent mid-major conference; the A10 simply isn't what it used to be, and there is no other way to see it.

Am I trying to pick at you? Not at all. As a Xavier fan, I've come to see the level of difference between the BE and the A10, and it is pronounced. The exposure, the money, where this conference sits in the rankings, where our teams presently sit in the AP Poll and Coach's Poll - all of it - simply add up to some serious differentiation. The BE has been a strategic Godsend to Xavier.

Otherwise, while UD fans don't like being dismissed as low level interlopers on a Big East board, and taking my Xavier fandom out of it for a minute, it is a fact that the vast majority of fans here are ACTUALLY PLEASED with the BE as it exists with its present membership and the Round Robin, are of the opinion that existing basketball school candidates don't make the cut (presently), and are convinced that it is in the best interests of the conference to hold "as-is" until more change occurs on the football side of things.