State of St. John's

[NovaBall]

I am willing to bet good money that in less than 5 years St. John's will be in the upper half of the Big East.

I would be willing to bet that within 5 years they have a team (or more) finish in the upper half of the league, but I'm not so sure that the Johnnies become a mainstay in the upper half. I need to see a lot more before I buy into that theory.

[Hall2012]

As bad as St. John's has looked at times this year (far too frequently), the Syracuse game was a prime example that the team does have talent and is capable of putting it together to beat a good team. They're likely going to take some really embarrassing losses in Big East play this year, but at the same time, I'd bet on these guys knocking off a Big East bubble team like Marquette or Seton Hall.

[sju88grad]

After being away from the board the past few days, I saw the title of this thread and immediately cringed.....to my pleasant surprise, most of the posters have a great understanding of exactly what st. john's is up against this year....i fully expected us to be terrible but i am still convinced that we will be right in the thick of things in a year or two.....i am watching the sju games this season fully expecting to lose but hoping to see some improvements in the freshmen by end of season.....i am really enjoying rooting for the other big east teams this year.....i haven't seen a lot of games but xavier, butler and marquette have been the most surprising (in a good way).....i'm planning on making it back east for the big east tournament this year fully expecting that sju will be in the 7 vs. 10 game on wednesday night but i'll go to the whole event and enjoy the hoops....only 11 months until next season!!!

[MUBoxer]

I'm not sure why it matters. But since you want to place arbitrary dates on things, Jay has three wins in the dance in the past few years. Have to go back to the 1980's to find DePaul's last three wins in the ncaa tournament.

And I love when you young hippity hoppities come in here guns blazing with your what have you done for me lately attitude. Sometimes you overachieve tourney expectations, sometimes you come short. It's a single elimination tournament, it happens. You are obviously pretty young if you can't see that. But Jay took a 3 seed to a final four, a 12 and 5 seed to the sweet 16, and he's lost early with some other teams. When Nova won it all they were an 8 seed. Anyone who overreacts the way you appear to is either very young (like was in High School in 2009) or is a troll like stever.

Dude your whole argument was based on arbitrairy numbers as well. I only said those past couple years because you pointed out that Depaul had underperformed as a top seed for years. Three wins with three losses, keep touting that lol.

Overreacts? I said I'm not taking anything away from Nova like you seem to think. I'm pointing out that you hating on Depaul for underperforming when they were high seeds is the pot calling the kettle black. You trolled depaul for how many early exits when they were a high seed and then when it's pointed out that Nova flamed out when they're a high seed you just brush it off as a crap shoot. You can't have it both ways. Listen man call me young and patronize me all you want, I'm self sufficient live work etc just like you the only difference is I'm not blinded by some insane hate and obsession... like a certain crotchety old man on here.

Also you're blaming the young lads for a what have you done lately for me attitude but your entire argument against depaul is based on that same concept! Seriously did you not take any logic courses in school? I admit it wasn't my best class but you must have skipped the entire thing or in your advanced age you've forgotten how to apply it.

Disagree that the 2006 wins versus Cal or Wake are bigger for the league than beating Syracuse this year for the Johnnies at MSG. What, are you just picking through and finding ranked wins? You are obviously way too young to appreciate the significance of beating Cuse at MSG. Wins against random ranked teams don't compare to the significance of beating a Cuse team, fresh off their win at Altantis, at the Garden. Someday you might be old enough to appreciate that.

The Kansas win I guess would be up there, although I don't even remember that so it obviously didn't move the needle too much. Considering you were in junior high at the time I doubt you remember it either.


I stand by my point that this year's St. John's team, as bad as it is, has already contributed more to the Big East in their win over Cuse that DePaul has in a decade of membership. The only comparison was an early season win for DePaul against Kansas a decade ago, before everyone realized how horrible DePaul was truly going to be.

So you think beating a Cuse team that won't be in the NCAA tournament, coming off a terrible season, at SJU's home court is bigger than beating a top 5 blue blood? Dude your old man sentimental goggles cloud all your rationale. Take those off and maybe you'll be able to use logic like I talked about above.

If Cuse was having a good year or at least coming off a good year I might see your argument but they aren't.

And I was in Jr High with a sister at depaul, at a Chicago public school and grew up rooting for Depaul so I certainly do remember it but thanks again for trying to act like because I'm younger than you, I wouldn't know what was going on.

[MUBoxer]

To be fair, that's not a very high bar to clear now is it? I think Ball's feelings on DePaul are a little overboard, but there is night and day difference in most BE fan's sense of optimism about the 2 programs.

And I get that, truly I believe SJU will be good again long before Depaul is and I agree SJU's big win that Novaball is all excited for is a low bar to clear that's what I'm trying to point out. A home win over an overrated team, coming off a bad season, is not a big premier win. I get it's sentimental for those with a woody for the old BE but beyond that it's no different than Depaul beating Syracuse at home in 2006 only that Syracuse team was actually good.

If Wisconsin continues to be this bad is Marquette beating Wisconsin our big turnaround win of the program? Nope. But he seems to think that because a team has a name to it, that team is a good win even in bad years.

[NovaBall]

Overreacts? I said I'm not taking anything away from Nova like you seem to think. I'm pointing out that you hating on Depaul for underperforming when they were high seeds is the pot calling the kettle black. You trolled depaul for how many early exits when they were a high seed and then when it's pointed out that Nova flamed out when they're a high seed you just brush it off as a crap shoot. You can't have it both ways. Listen man call me young and patronize me all you want, I'm self sufficient live work etc just like you the only difference is I'm not blinded by some insane hate and obsession... like a certain crotchety old man on here.

Ummmm.... I think you have missed a significant portion of the discussion. I am not hating on Rey Meyer, it is DeamonLS who constantly says Jay Wright sucks, etc... because Jay only has 14 ncaa tournament wins and lost a few times as a high seed. I pointed out to him that Jay still has several early exits as a high seed to go before he catches Rey Meyer's numerous early exits.

I understand that in the tournament, even teams in the 7 or 8 seed range are borderline top 25 teams and can beat top 10 teams. Heck, my school won it all as an 8 seed and one of the supposedly bad teams that we should be ashamed of losing to won it all as a 7 seed.

[NovaBall]

So you think beating a Cuse team that won't be in the NCAA tournament, coming off a terrible season, at SJU's home court is bigger than beating a top 5 blue blood?

Yeah, I kind of do.

I do concede that the Kansas win for DePauyl might be up there with this year's Cuse win, but when looking at the big picture I think this year's Cuse win was bigger.

In 2006-07 season, the Big East was flying high, no concerns about perception, etc... The win against Kansas was just another big win for the conference, something we would get all the time. Heck, even Villanova and the coach that you think sucks beat Kansas by 2 dozen points a year and a half earlier. Another Big East team had just recently beat Kansas in the national championship. Beating Kansas was something that Big East teams did back then.

Right now the Big East is again flying high, but in the conference's most important market there is one intruder. And the Johnnies took them out right after GTown did, and right after Syracuse won the Battle for Atlantis (so save the overrated talk as they did win that tourney which is the best pre-season tourney in the country). That's a huge win, even if you don't see why.

And at the time, the perception of overratedness, as you are probably too young to remember that Kansas team: That was a very good Kansas team but was horrible to start the season, and their loss to DePaul was following a loss to Oral Freaking Roberts. So the perception at the time was not that DePaul beat some blue blood and DePaul was on the rise, but rather that Kansas was overrated and loss to DePaul. And while the Johnnies win over Cuse might make Cuse look overrated (which it does), that actually helps the conference, while making Kansas look overrated is a whatever moment.


So while the Kansas win was nice for DePaul in 2007, it was not as big as the Cuse win for St. John's this year. But when you look at the big picture, as bad as the Johnnies are this year, you can find maybe one moment for DePaul's contribution to the Big East that matches what St. John's was able to do in their worst year.

[NovaBall]

Also you're blaming the young lads for a what have you done lately for me attitude but your entire argument against depaul is based on that same concept! Seriously did you not take any logic courses in school? I admit it wasn't my best class but you must have skipped the entire thing or in your advanced age you've forgotten how to apply it.

DePaul has been in the conference for a decade now. Is a decade sample a what have you done for me lately attitude?

DePaul has never made a NCAA Tournament while members of the Big East, and they have one tournament win since the 1980's.

That's not a what have you done for me lately attitude. That is more of a what have you done for me during muboxer's entire lifetime attitude.


And thanks for revealing your bias towards DePaul that you grew up in Chicago with family there. That explains it. Because I was wondering if you were a DePaul troll posing as a Marquette fan because nobody without an affiliation to DePaul would take your view.

[DemonLS]

Nova,

You are full of crap! Period.

The DePaul win over Kansas was a pretty big win. The better part is that attendance was about 16,000 at that game with 50% of the crowd being Kansas fans.

And BTW, the DePaul teams of the early 80s were better than ANY Villanova team ever....including the team that won it all with Rollie. But you were probably in diapers then turning the TV channel back and forth between the basketball game and Bugs Bunny.

[NovaBall]

And I get that, truly I believe SJU will be good again long before Depaul is and I agree SJU's big win that Novaball is all excited for is a low bar to clear that's what I'm trying to point out. .

And the sad thing is, in a decade DePaul has not been able to clear that low bar.

I never said that the Cuse win was an amazing accomplishment, but it is more than DePaul has contributed to the conference over the past decade (or at best, on par with beating Kansas after Kansas had just lost to Oral Roberts and everyone thought Kansas was super overrated).

St. John's worst year they still bring more to the table than DePaul's entire decade in the conference. That's the point, and it's true.