Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[Xudash]

Confused by a few things- 1. Dayton having a better 10 year run than VCU? 2. The same people putting down a VCU addition due to Shaka Smart possibly leaving (at the time) but saying the BE should add Davidson when Bob is 65 years old? 3. Talk of adding davidson when most of the discussion I've had on this thread over the years was looking for a large fanbase and sized school (Davidson has 1,600 students or so).

I think the Big East stays at 10 until a "candidate" forces the decision. Dayton makes a couple of S16 runs and weathers the post- Archie Miller era (it's coming). Or VCU shows it can compete by going to the S16 or better with Will Wade. SLU needs serious work, I hate to bring it up, but years ago I posted on here that SLu would be ok trouble after Rick Majerus' recruits graduated. UR needs a couple of deep tourney runs to be a serious contender.

Of course these are all on the court considerations, that's all I'm qualified to comment on.

Gopher, your bolded sentence implies that the Big East is operating from a point of weakness today. How will a candidate "force the decision" at the Big East's current rate of overall success?

[NJRedman]

Confused by a few things- 1. Dayton having a better 10 year run than VCU? 2. The same people putting down a VCU addition due to Shaka Smart possibly leaving (at the time) but saying the BE should add Davidson when Bob is 65 years old? 3. Talk of adding davidson when most of the discussion I've had on this thread over the years was looking for a large fanbase and sized school (Davidson has 1,600 students or so).

I think the Big East stays at 10 until a "candidate" forces the decision. Dayton makes a couple of S16 runs and weathers the post- Archie Miller era (it's coming). Or VCU shows it can compete by going to the S16 or better with Will Wade. SLU needs serious work, I hate to bring it up, but years ago I posted on here that SLu would be ok trouble after Rick Majerus' recruits graduated. UR needs a couple of deep tourney runs to be a serious contender.

Of course these are all on the court considerations, that's all I'm qualified to comment on.

Gopher, your bolded sentence implies that the Big East is operating from a point of weakness today. How will a candidate "force the decision" at the Big East's current rate of overall success?

I agree with him dash, if Dayton or some other A-10 school pulls a Butler making national title games and maybe actually wins the whole thing then thats forcing the discussion. Dayton with a national title is hard to ignore. A final four might bring it up in a more serious conversation but a final or national title would definitely make us have a serious discussion about expanding.

[Xudash]

Confused by a few things- 1. Dayton having a better 10 year run than VCU? 2. The same people putting down a VCU addition due to Shaka Smart possibly leaving (at the time) but saying the BE should add Davidson when Bob is 65 years old? 3. Talk of adding davidson when most of the discussion I've had on this thread over the years was looking for a large fanbase and sized school (Davidson has 1,600 students or so).

I think the Big East stays at 10 until a "candidate" forces the decision. Dayton makes a couple of S16 runs and weathers the post- Archie Miller era (it's coming). Or VCU shows it can compete by going to the S16 or better with Will Wade. SLU needs serious work, I hate to bring it up, but years ago I posted on here that SLu would be ok trouble after Rick Majerus' recruits graduated. UR needs a couple of deep tourney runs to be a serious contender.

Of course these are all on the court considerations, that's all I'm qualified to comment on.

Gopher, your bolded sentence implies that the Big East is operating from a point of weakness today. How will a candidate "force the decision" at the Big East's current rate of overall success?

I agree with him dash, if Dayton or some other A-10 school pulls a Butler making national title games and maybe actually wins the whole thing then thats forcing the discussion. Dayton with a national title is hard to ignore. A final four might bring it up in a more serious conversation but a final or national title would definitely make us have a serious discussion about expanding.

I'm fine with that logic. I'm just having a tough time imagining an A10 team being able to accomplish all that before a Big East program does.

We already know that we're not waiting up nights worrying about expansion.

And the flip side here is that the Big East keeps rolling and getting stronger. Let's say that we (more likely) punch one or n of us through to the F4 and one of us meets VCU there. Does VCU then get an invite that summer? Do you remix a successful potion due to external factors? Maybe there are reasons for doing that. Then again, maybe not.

[Gopher+RamFan]

Confused by a few things- 1. Dayton having a better 10 year run than VCU? 2. The same people putting down a VCU addition due to Shaka Smart possibly leaving (at the time) but saying the BE should add Davidson when Bob is 65 years old? 3. Talk of adding davidson when most of the discussion I've had on this thread over the years was looking for a large fanbase and sized school (Davidson has 1,600 students or so).

I think the Big East stays at 10 until a "candidate" forces the decision. Dayton makes a couple of S16 runs and weathers the post- Archie Miller era (it's coming). Or VCU shows it can compete by going to the S16 or better with Will Wade. SLU needs serious work, I hate to bring it up, but years ago I posted on here that SLu would be ok trouble after Rick Majerus' recruits graduated. UR needs a couple of deep tourney runs to be a serious contender.

Of course these are all on the court considerations, that's all I'm qualified to comment on.

Gopher, your bolded sentence implies that the Big East is operating from a point of weakness today. How will a candidate "force the decision" at the Big East's current rate of overall success?

I disagree that that is the implication. Ever since the Big East separated the football teams from the conference, there has been talk of expansion in time. No one really knows the timing, could be 5, 10, 15 years away. If there is a candidate that can force the conference to initiate this expansion earlier than their timetable, it would have to be through on the court success. A Dayton or VCU going to the F4 or National Championship would press that discussion in my mind.

I could phrase it a different way for Big East fans. "The Big East will stay at 10 for now because it is successful, until there is a candidate that is worthy to be added". This phrase has been bantered about on here forever. All the off the court metrics for the candidates are going to stay the same, so on the court success is the only thing that will make that candidate "worthy" or force that discussion. I guess it's semantics, but if you had to say one side has the power (candidates or BE) obviously the BE is in the drivers seat.

[NJRedman]

Gopher, your bolded sentence implies that the Big East is operating from a point of weakness today. How will a candidate "force the decision" at the Big East's current rate of overall success?

I agree with him dash, if Dayton or some other A-10 school pulls a Butler making national title games and maybe actually wins the whole thing then thats forcing the discussion. Dayton with a national title is hard to ignore. A final four might bring it up in a more serious conversation but a final or national title would definitely make us have a serious discussion about expanding.

I'm fine with that logic. I'm just having a tough time imagining an A10 team being able to accomplish all that before a Big East program does.

We already know that we're not waiting up nights worrying about expansion.

And the flip side here is that the Big East keeps rolling and getting stronger. Let's say that we (more likely) punch one or n of us through to the F4 and one of us meets VCU there. Does VCU then get an invite that summer? Do you remix a successful potion due to external factors? Maybe there are reasons for doing that. Then again, maybe not.

Butler did it twice since any C7 team has done it when they were in the lowly Horizon league. We have to prove we can do it before we can say another conference can't.

[augkash]

I find it funny when the league started for Dayton to get in they had to win some NCAA tournament games. They have won 5 in two years now it's not good enough. Now for them to get in they have to win it all. Lol I'm sure Dash will say He had dinner with Xavier's president and he said Dayton is not getting in

[Xudash]

I find it funny when the league started for Dayton to get in they had to win some NCAA tournament games. They have won 5 in two years now it's not good enough. Now for them to get in they have to win it all. Lol I'm sure Dash will say He had dinner with Xavier's president and he said Dayton is not getting in

I'm not the one who brought up the idea of a candidate having to win the NC in order to make some kind of cut.

UD's resume isn't good enough. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about that.

Besides, Xavier destroyed UD on a neutral court this year, which did little for UD's rep around here.

You'll have to excuse me, I'm a tad busy enjoying the beat down of our true rival.

[MUPanther]

The Horizon League was about 12th in the RPI at that time. Much better league that most would know. Of course I'm bias to that.

[jaxalum]

I find it funny when the league started for Dayton to get in they had to win some NCAA tournament games. They have won 5 in two years now it's not good enough. Now for them to get in they have to win it all. Lol I'm sure Dash will say He had dinner with Xavier's president and he said Dayton is not getting in

Don't be a flippant ass. Dayton has had ONE good run in twenty plus years. A play in game win on your home court in the NCAA tournament is nothing to hang your hat on and was an incredible disservice to Boise St. So you're inferring that catching lightning in a bottle for ONE year merits consideration for an invite to the Big East. Why not consider then Florida Gulf Coast, Cleveland State, Chattanooga, Richmond (merits some consideration), Bradley, Ohio, Lasalle, Loyola Marymount, George Mason, VCU, Western Kentucky, UW Milwaukee, Missouri State, Ball State, Wyoming, etc. They've made runs in March.

I think it also comes down to what is best for the league, but also a mutual respect for the interests of each institution individually. Call me corny, but as a new member (Xavier), as a league, we've undergone somewhat of a siege mentality from the media, envious third parties, ESPN, naysayers in every form, etc, and I feel protective of each and every conference mate. Hence, I look at what enhances their best interests individually, especially when this league is in its infancy. The expansion threads have dominated this board for some time. I look at it this way. If George Washington suddenly put together a five plus year run of Elite 8s, a couple of Final Fours, do you think Georgetown would want them even mentioned in expansion discussions? The Univ of Chicago (elite academically) becomes a basketball power (Depaul). Fordham, however unlikely, becomes a power/ St Johns. Butler/ IUPUI. Providence/Holy Cross/Brown. Seton Hall/Rutgers. And the most obvious is Villanova and the Philly 5. I don't know if this is well known but Nova has an official ironclad "block" on St Joe's from ever joining the Big East. My point being, it's as simple as a school wanting to protect their interests/turf. Xavier would want nothing to do with a like minded institution 45 minutes away in Dayton. I obviously have zero say if and when expansion ever occurs, but if I did you can be damn sure that I would make it a priority to look at the interests of the team that is already in the conference first and foremost, and how a possible expansion candidate could negatively effect their program. And I hope they would do the same in turn.

There are certain teams we obviously would welcome with open arms, mostly pipe dreams I might add.... ND, UConn, Gonzaga. But Xavier fans get some blowback because we are resistant to the idea of a team 45 minutes away getting an invite. Put yourself in our shoes if some of the above scenarios were to play out. Nova has already put in place "measures" to protect their interests. Can you blame Xavier, or any other school in this situation, wanting to follow suit and do the same?

[Noonzy]

The presidents of the BE schools don't want to add any state schools. They can't compete with the money the state school get from the state.

Thats not true, we'd take UConn in a NY second.

I don't know who your sources are, but the sources I know said no way UConn gets admitted. The reason is not only football it's also because it's the state school. Private schools cannot compete with the money the state schools get.