MUBoxer wrote:See I'd agree per MSG but as far as your market argument that'd only be effective if he didn't rank depaul tenth. It's the largest school in the conference (largest catholic school in the country) in the 3rd largest market in the country. I'm not sure about biggest hub of our alumni. Maybe that was true in years past but on top of Depaul actually being in chicago with their alumni around the city Marquette has a massive contingent here as well (60% of the school is from around chicago) I know Butler and Creighton also have massive amounts of alumni here to. NYC probably still has more overall but it's close enough that that same argument should've brought Depaul upward. Essentially they're sister schools and it doesn't make sense to use all those arguments for one being so high and while the other gets ignored.
NJRedman wrote:falcon wrote:NJ Redmen isn't representative of either NY nor SJU. He's one of those people who is seldom right, and never in doubt.
Seldom right? Says the guy who keeps pushing for divisions. Seriously, who the F are you? Who is your team? How do you know what a SJU fan or a New Yorker is like?
falcon wrote:NJRedman wrote:falcon wrote:NJ Redmen isn't representative of either NY nor SJU. He's one of those people who is seldom right, and never in doubt.
Seldom right? Says the guy who keeps pushing for divisions. Seriously, who the F are you? Who is your team? How do you know what a SJU fan or a New Yorker is like?
I'm both a New Yorker and a SJU grad, and a fan for over forty years, and your crude, phony tough guy act is not typical of the St. John's people I know. As for the division question, I only mentioned it in passing. You, as usual, then overreacted. I'm fine with whatever the league chooses to do, if and when it expands.
booyah wrote:MUBoxer wrote:See I'd agree per MSG but as far as your market argument that'd only be effective if he didn't rank depaul tenth. It's the largest school in the conference (largest catholic school in the country) in the 3rd largest market in the country. I'm not sure about biggest hub of our alumni. Maybe that was true in years past but on top of Depaul actually being in chicago with their alumni around the city Marquette has a massive contingent here as well (60% of the school is from around chicago) I know Butler and Creighton also have massive amounts of alumni here to. NYC probably still has more overall but it's close enough that that same argument should've brought Depaul upward. Essentially they're sister schools and it doesn't make sense to use all those arguments for one being so high and while the other gets ignored.
I think that means we agree? In that I wouldn't have ranked Depaul at the bottom. I'm only defending the top 4 being Gtown/Nova/St.John's/MU. Maybe I'm biased and a Nova/ St. John's grad would argue the top three?
If i was doing a ranking I'd say 5-8 (Butler/Xavier/Provi/Seton Hall) are a bit of a mishmash between arguments about market/bball tradition/big east tradition/recent success.
Depaul is much less Chicago Bball then St. John's is NYC, both because of their recent success and the comparatively lower crescent of their past success. (Not that St. John's owns NYC, but at least they matter.) But does being a large school in Chicago make Depaul 5th? 9th? somewhere in between? No idea. I agree that the conference having a presence in NY and Chicago is huge.
I love having Creighton in the conference- Creighton's run with McDermott was important to the conference at its most vulnerable period, they have great alumni, great alumni support, and are a great fit. But I'd assume they have the least leverage over the other programs- 1. Because they are so geographically distant from most of the Big East 2. Come from a small metro area 3. Have very little of our alumni locally, 4. The Wichita St. phenomenon- are geographically bereft of options in conference alignment 5. are newcomers. So I put them 10th. They make it a habit to get to the Sweet 16 and they'll be right up there in the mix.
Fieldhouse Flyer wrote:Page 97 of Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015Xudash on October 7, 2015 wrote:
UD has ZERO track record - actually, it has a negative record - when it comes to replacing coaches. Until Archie, they've been horrid at that very important function.
I disagree. Jim O'Brien inherited an NCAA Tournament-bound team in 1989, and four years later, led the Flyers to an abysmal 4-26 record with the players he recruited and trained – the all-time low for the Dayton Flyers’ basketball program. Jim O’Brien sunk the Flyers so deep that it would take another two decades for the program to recover. It has admittedly been an excruciatingly slow process.
The rebuilding process has been incremental, but sustained, with each new head coach being more successful than his predecessor:
Jim O'Brien (1989-1994) – 5 Seasons ==> Overall: 61–87 (.412), Conference: 27–56 (.422)
Oliver Purnell (1994-2003) – 9 Seasons ==> Overall: 155–116 (.572), Conference: 72–68 (.514)
Brian Gregory (2003-2011) – 8 Seasons ==> Overall: 172–94 (.647), Conference: 70–58 (.547)
Archie Miller (2011-present) – 4 Seasons ==> Overall: 90–47 (.657), Conference: 39–27 (.591)
Archie Miller (2013-2015) – last 2 Seasons ==> Overall: 53-19 (.740), Conference: 23-11 (.680) and 7 NCAA Tournament games 5-2 (.710)
Dayton has a very young team this season (no seniors, 4 juniors, a sophomore, and 5 freshmen), yet was picked to win the Atlantic 10 by Joel Welser (who could well be wrong in this instance). Once again, the Flyers will likely be sweating it out on Selection Sunday, but Archie Miller will put another good team on the court this season and next season. That you can count on.
gtmoBlue wrote:My (butlerguy03) list was just a reaction to the "who makes the decisions" posting that was going on. It wasn't scientific, and by no means any numbers went into the thought. It was simply, as another poster pointed out, my feeling of who was "in charge" of any expansion and a ranking of who we HAVE to keep. - end -
I see. IMO the decision making, power schools - in Order:
G'twn, Marquette, and Villanova.
Note: My response (using numbers, records, etc.) was due to presuming butlerguy03 had an equation or formula. He states there was none. End of story.
However, did life begin in 2005 for the Warriors/GEs? No. All the schools in this conference had the majority of their "body of work" accomplished prior to joining the BE - whether as independents, ECAC, Eastern 8, Great Midwest, CUSA, or other conference. Do any of you arbitrarily subtract 1000 wins off your schools record due to not being Big East wins? I doubt it. Records and wins are what they are - facts - regardless of where they were earned.
We would not be a Big East member today, were it not for those records and wins you are thumbing your nose at now. Creighton's hoops history and tradition "is what it is" and we have no need to apologize. We are more than "good enough" as evidenced by our inclusion into the Big East Conference.
I love the Warriors/GEs, ever since they told the NCAA to pound sand back in 1974 (Al & Hank). They have historically been the Jays big brother for 40-50 years. Al and Hank continued to schedule Creighton for years after joining various conferences. Milwaukee (Marquette) is the hub/HQ of the great plains Jesuits. The series has over 80 games played - we will gladly add on the 50+ W's that Marquette had won, since we are not "worthy" as a former independent and little MVC school.
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