butlerguy03 wrote:In my short time as a Big East fan (Butler), here are the ranking of what schools have pull or power - in my opinion:
I based this off of market size, academic prestige, athletic success - particularly basketball - recent (last 20 years) tradition, and layman/outsider fan knowledge or view of the program.
1. Georgetown
2. Villanova
3. St. John's
4. Marquette
5. Xavier
6. Butler
7. Providence
8. Seton Hall
9. Creighton
10. DePaul
This wasn't to burn some fans, just me trying to be honest. You'll see that Butler, even with recent 15 year success, is still 6th.
The only ones I had trouble with is 5/6 and 8/9.
R Jay wrote:butlerguy03 wrote:In my short time as a Big East fan (Butler), here are the ranking of what schools have pull or power - in my opinion:
I based this off of market size, academic prestige, athletic success - particularly basketball - recent (last 20 years) tradition, and layman/outsider fan knowledge or view of the program.
1. Georgetown
2. Villanova
3. St. John's
4. Marquette
5. Xavier
6. Butler
7. Providence
8. Seton Hall
9. Creighton
10. DePaul
This wasn't to burn some fans, just me trying to be honest. You'll see that Butler, even with recent 15 year success, is still 6th.
The only ones I had trouble with is 5/6 and 8/9.
I don't see how Providence and Seton Hall are above Creighton... Weighting market size heavily is the only plausible explanation.
St. John's is waaaaaaay too high. I'd have them in the 6-8 range.
MUBoxer wrote:Must really value market size to put St. John's over Marquette. Because every other category MU's got them beat.
falcon wrote:NJ Redmen isn't representative of either NY nor SJU. He's one of those people who is seldom right, and never in doubt.
booyah wrote:MUBoxer wrote:Must really value market size to put St. John's over Marquette. Because every other category MU's got them beat.
The ranking of the first four seems right to me. Think of it as - if you were another conference that could/had to poach from the Big East, (say A10 or ACC) how would you rank the programs?
To address St. John's in particular, beyond having a great history in the Big East which helps tie the brand to the conference (the transition from the BE to nBE), they uniquely maintain our claim to MSG, the largest media market and the biggest hub of our alumni. St. John's may never 'own' the NYC market but the upside for the conference if St. John's gets seriously competitive is pretty darn high.
Losing Marquette would be a big blow to the Big East, no question. Losing St. John's would be a disaster.
butlerguy03 wrote:In my short time as a Big East fan (Butler), here are the ranking of what schools have pull or power - in my opinion:
I based this off of market size, academic prestige, athletic success - particularly basketball - recent (last 20 years) tradition, and layman/outsider fan knowledge or view of the program.
1. Georgetown
2. Villanova
3. St. John's
4. Marquette
5. Xavier
6. Butler
7. Providence
8. Seton Hall
9. Creighton
10. DePaul
This wasn't to burn some fans, just me trying to be honest. You'll see that Butler, even with recent 15 year success, is still 6th.
The only ones I had trouble with is 5/6 and 8/9.
gtmoBlue wrote:Butlerguy03... Might be time to show the formula u used to build your model. The points regarding Marquette and DePaul are valid regarding mkt size, alum base, etc.
If mkt size is the predominant factor, DePaul cannot be 10th.
Also while in a lesser mkt, Creighton is the top academic regional school in the Midwest (x 13 years running) and has a better record than Prov and SH over the last 20 year period:
15 - 20+ Win seasons (last 20 yrs)
4 - Conf Championships, 8 - Conf tourney championships
10 - NCAA bids, 5 - NIT postseason bids
17 - post season tourneys
Something is amiss with your formula?
BigmanU wrote:butlerguy03 wrote:In my short time as a Big East fan (Butler), here are the ranking of what schools have pull or power - in my opinion:
I based this off of market size, academic prestige, athletic success - particularly basketball - recent (last 20 years) tradition, and layman/outsider fan knowledge or view of the program.
1. Georgetown
2. Villanova
3. St. John's
4. Marquette
5. Xavier
6. Butler
7. Providence
8. Seton Hall
9. Creighton
10. DePaul
This wasn't to burn some fans, just me trying to be honest. You'll see that Butler, even with recent 15 year success, is still 6th.
The only ones I had trouble with is 5/6 and 8/9.
1-4 are spot on!
Agree, trouble with 5 & 6
7-10 are all about the same. I will say however that DePaul has the biggest upside and could move all the way to 5 if it ever got it's shit together. Like St. John's, a sleeping giant.
Losing any one of the top three would be devastating to the conference because they are the remaining heavyweights in which the foundation of the conference was built. There's really no debate in this.
When doing a list like this, the main thing to consider is which team would an outside conference want to poach first or what would be the biggest hole to fill (make the biggest blackeye to the conference).
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