Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[Gopher+RamFan]

Someone posted a few pages ago, that they were surprised there haven't been "arms races" to get the attention of the Big East among the rumored expansion candidates. VCU whas basically completed their $25 million practice facility. It is across the street from the arena and now the city will approve that street shutting down during gamedays. These are the pleminary steps towards shutting down that street forever to expand VCU's 7,800 seat arena - to a larger 10,000 seat arena. VCU has sold out roughly 60 straight games.

In regards to television markets/exposure, VCU signed a $20 million/10 year multimedia deal with Learfield. The deal is similar to geoegetowns, however it is set at $2 million whereas georgetown's fluctuates between 1.8 and 3 million I believe? Whereas people can debate which markets FS1 will be forced into (richmond, dayton, Charlotte, Wichita all have FS1 already at decent rates) the proof is in the pudding as they say, when professional companies determine contract rates. Richmond has a contract with Learfield as well, but has not publicized the amount. Dayton and SLU must have something similar but the numbers aren't released.

I stand by my long standard comments about a tier 1 public research institution, with 33k students and 16k employees in a fast growing souther state, focused solely on D1 basketball is an asset to the Big East. If the member institutions believe that institutional similarity should be the main focus in this athletic conference than this whole point is moot .

[Xudash]

UD makes no sense due to its location and TV market.

Nielson - Local Television Market Universe Estimates - Effective September 26, 2015

64. Dayton
74. Omaha

No comment.

Do you see a fellow BE member sitting within 50 miles of Creighton on that map?

Did you simply feel compelled to attempt to take a shot at Creighton?

With the BE already sporting some of the largest television markets in the nation with its existing members, I doubt the President's have much of a desire to add the 64th rated market at this point, especially since it's next door to an existing member's market.

[Xudash]

Jesus Christ X fans calm it down. Like or not Dayton is in the mix and will be until the day we announce our additions if we ever do. They are a quality program and would definitely add value to the conference.If they were in Detroit, Baktimore, Boston or Pittsburgh they'd be a slam dunk.

I love how it's always about Xavier fans having to "calm it down" when it comes to this topic.

You need to understand a couple things, if you don't already:

1. Xavier doesn't fear UD. UD has been referred to as Xavier's "Little Brother" for years and for obvious reasons. This isn't about that.

2. UD absolutely has positives as a program, including a loyal fanbase, but a lot of the rest of it is yet to be proven.

First and foremost, I really don't need to read about the UD market being valuable for television purposes. It just isn't in the scheme of things - - specifically when looking at the bigger picture of what this conference wants to achieve with its media partner. UD obviously isn't located in any of those other cities you mentioned, so they're no kind of "dunk" as far as that goes.

Secondly, UD has ZERO track record - actually, it has a negative record - when it comes to replacing coaches. Archie Miller is not long for that program, probably especially given the fact that UD has kept law enforcement officials in Montgomery County busy now for three straight years. I believe they lost their AD a while ago, so, assuming they've announced a new one, that individual will have to prove himself on the next hire. Until Archie, they've been horrid at that very important function.

I haven't commented much on this topic lately because I truly believe we're locked into a 10 member conference situation for the foreseeable future. It's just that this isn't about always being automatically about a Xavier/UD pissing match. If a UD fan wants to come on here and spout out hundreds of words of justification that heavily rely on two years of data, I'd say he wasted his time.

If you want to consider UD as being one of the top non-football candidates, I'd say knock yourself out; it's a free country.

Otherwise, if a Xavier fan wants to spend a few minutes shooting holes in that guy's drivel, as a Xavier fan and a Big East fan, he has every right to do that.

You just completely pulled this out of your ass. No where in my four sentence post did I say X was scared of Dayton or anything remotely like that.

"Jesus Christ X fans calm it down. Like or not Dayton is in the mix and will be until the day we announce our additions if we ever do. They are a quality program and would definitely add value to the conference.If they were in Detroit, Baktimore, Boston or Pittsburgh they'd be a slam dunk."

Is your deal that part of being a New Yorker means being combative and caustic?

First, you overreact to Xavier fans commenting on this expansion topic, apparently because UD was in play in the discussion.

Then, just in case you weren't aware of the dynamics involved, I tried to provide you a little context when it comes to Xavier and UD. I wasn't taking a shot at you. I wasn't pulling anything out of my ass. I just thought you might like to know that we regard UD as being in our rear view mirror, so our view of UD as a viable expansion candidate isn't good for UD. We mostly believe we should hold at 10 and not consider expansion until football realignment spins again. That means additions based upon them being truly epic -- e.g. UCONN. I guess time can be killed by discussing non-football prospective additions, but UD gets tripped up for me in that discussion based on its small TV market and lack of demonstrated success at replacing coaches.

I don't disagree with the argument about institutional fit. In fact, it's well thought out. I would just submit here that, while we should strive for that objective when it comes to our membership, we aren't the B1G. We have to focus on programs that can truly win on a sustainable basis and that are also good instutions. This is where I'm not as attached to the private-only model. Give me UCONN and VCU and that would be a good day at the office. At any rate, UD is low on the list, and it isn't because Xavier fans have a hardon for UD. There is no reason for us to care about UD anymore.

Perhaps you don't like X for some reason. That's your call. Perhaps it is a New York thing. But whatever it is, you should consider chilling out a little, or don't' chill out and keep firing away.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Did you simply feel compelled to attempt to take a shot at Creighton?

My previous post was not intended to be a shot at Creighton - it was a concise rebuttal to your sentence that I quoted.

My apologies to any Bluejays fans who were unintentionally offended by my post.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Page 97 of Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

UD has ZERO track record - actually, it has a negative record - when it comes to replacing coaches. Until Archie, they've been horrid at that very important function.

I disagree. Jim O'Brien inherited an NCAA Tournament-bound team in 1989, and four years later, led the Flyers to an abysmal 4-26 record with the players he recruited and trained – the all-time low for the Dayton Flyers’ basketball program. Jim O’Brien sunk the Flyers so deep that it would take another two decades for the program to recover. It has admittedly been an excruciatingly slow process.

The rebuilding process has been incremental, but sustained, with each new head coach being more successful than his predecessor:

Jim O'Brien (1989-1994) – 5 Seasons ==> Overall: 61–87 (.412), Conference: 27–56 (.422)

Oliver Purnell (1994-2003) – 9 Seasons ==> Overall: 155–116 (.572), Conference: 72–68 (.514)

Brian Gregory (2003-2011) – 8 Seasons ==> Overall: 172–94 (.647), Conference: 70–58 (.547)

Archie Miller (2011-present) – 4 Seasons ==> Overall: 90–47 (.657), Conference: 39–27 (.591)

Archie Miller (2013-2015) – last 2 Seasons ==> Overall: 53-19 (.740), Conference: 23-11 (.680) and 7 NCAA Tournament games 5-2 (.710)

Dayton has a very young team this season (no seniors, 4 juniors, a sophomore, and 5 freshmen), yet was picked to win the Atlantic 10 by Joel Welser (who could well be wrong in this instance). Once again, the Flyers will likely be sweating it out on Selection Sunday, but Archie Miller will put another good team on the court this season and next season. That you can count on.

[butlerguy03]

In my short time as a Big East fan (Butler), here are the ranking of what schools have pull or power - in my opinion:

I based this off of market size, academic prestige, athletic success - particularly basketball - recent (last 20 years) tradition, and layman/outsider fan knowledge or view of the program.

1. Georgetown
2. Villanova
3. St. John's
4. Marquette
5. Xavier
6. Butler
7. Providence
8. Seton Hall
9. Creighton
10. DePaul

This wasn't to burn some fans, just me trying to be honest. You'll see that Butler, even with recent 15 year success, is still 6th.

The only ones I had trouble with is 5/6 and 8/9.

[NJRedman]

I love how it's always about Xavier fans having to "calm it down" when it comes to this topic.

You need to understand a couple things, if you don't already:

1. Xavier doesn't fear UD. UD has been referred to as Xavier's "Little Brother" for years and for obvious reasons. This isn't about that.

2. UD absolutely has positives as a program, including a loyal fanbase, but a lot of the rest of it is yet to be proven.

First and foremost, I really don't need to read about the UD market being valuable for television purposes. It just isn't in the scheme of things - - specifically when looking at the bigger picture of what this conference wants to achieve with its media partner. UD obviously isn't located in any of those other cities you mentioned, so they're no kind of "dunk" as far as that goes.

Secondly, UD has ZERO track record - actually, it has a negative record - when it comes to replacing coaches. Archie Miller is not long for that program, probably especially given the fact that UD has kept law enforcement officials in Montgomery County busy now for three straight years. I believe they lost their AD a while ago, so, assuming they've announced a new one, that individual will have to prove himself on the next hire. Until Archie, they've been horrid at that very important function.

I haven't commented much on this topic lately because I truly believe we're locked into a 10 member conference situation for the foreseeable future. It's just that this isn't about always being automatically about a Xavier/UD pissing match. If a UD fan wants to come on here and spout out hundreds of words of justification that heavily rely on two years of data, I'd say he wasted his time.

If you want to consider UD as being one of the top non-football candidates, I'd say knock yourself out; it's a free country.

Otherwise, if a Xavier fan wants to spend a few minutes shooting holes in that guy's drivel, as a Xavier fan and a Big East fan, he has every right to do that.

You just completely pulled this out of your ass. No where in my four sentence post did I say X was scared of Dayton or anything remotely like that.

"Jesus Christ X fans calm it down. Like or not Dayton is in the mix and will be until the day we announce our additions if we ever do. They are a quality program and would definitely add value to the conference.If they were in Detroit, Baktimore, Boston or Pittsburgh they'd be a slam dunk."

Is your deal that part of being a New Yorker means being combative and caustic?

First, you overreact to Xavier fans commenting on this expansion topic, apparently because UD was in play in the discussion.

Then, just in case you weren't aware of the dynamics involved, I tried to provide you a little context when it comes to Xavier and UD. I wasn't taking a shot at you. I wasn't pulling anything out of my ass. I just thought you might like to know that we regard UD as being in our rear view mirror, so our view of UD as a viable expansion candidate isn't good for UD. We mostly believe we should hold at 10 and not consider expansion until football realignment spins again. That means additions based upon them being truly epic -- e.g. UCONN. I guess time can be killed by discussing non-football prospective additions, but UD gets tripped up for me in that discussion based on its small TV market and lack of demonstrated success at replacing coaches.

I don't disagree with the argument about institutional fit. In fact, it's well thought out. I would just submit here that, while we should strive for that objective when it comes to our membership, we aren't the B1G. We have to focus on programs that can truly win on a sustainable basis and that are also good instutions. This is where I'm not as attached to the private-only model. Give me UCONN and VCU and that would be a good day at the office. At any rate, UD is low on the list, and it isn't because Xavier fans have a hardon for UD. There is no reason for us to care about UD anymore.

Perhaps you don't like X for some reason. That's your call. Perhaps it is a New York thing. But whatever it is, you should consider chilling out a little, or don't' chill out and keep firing away.

You are really all over the place. You are pulling things out of your ass to start a fight and you are taking shots.

Dayton isn't low on the list, UConn isn't walking through that door and you need thicker skin if what i posted pissed you off. If you can't be an adult don't take shots at me for being a New Yorker or whatever that shit means. You guys are JUST like Cincy fans. It must be something in the water because they also are reactionary and thin skinned.

You're the one being combative killer. Like it or not Dayton is definitely in the mix for a spot if we ever expand. SJU and Seton Hall are closer than X and Dayton and Seton Hall and Nova are just slightly farther away than X and Dayton. Stop acting like it's unheard of in the Big East. We're used to all being close to each other.

[MUBoxer]

In my short time as a Big East fan (Butler), here are the ranking of what schools have pull or power - in my opinion:

I based this off of market size, academic prestige, athletic success - particularly basketball - recent (last 20 years) tradition, and layman/outsider fan knowledge or view of the program.

1. Georgetown
2. Villanova
3. St. John's
4. Marquette
5. Xavier
6. Butler
7. Providence
8. Seton Hall
9. Creighton
10. DePaul

This wasn't to burn some fans, just me trying to be honest. You'll see that Butler, even with recent 15 year success, is still 6th.

The only ones I had trouble with is 5/6 and 8/9.

Must really value market size to put St. John's over Marquette. Because every other category MU's got them beat.

[stever20]

The thing with Seton Hall and St John's. If the conference was done today Seton Hall and St John's would not be both in the conference.

Oh and btw Redman- your comment about Nova/Seton Hall being only slightly farther away than X and Dayton...
X and Dayton are 48 miles apart
Nova/Seton Hall are 100 miles apart

[falcon]

NJ Redmen isn't representative of either NY nor SJU. He's one of those people who is seldom right, and never in doubt.