Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[NJRedman]

Jesus Christ X fans calm it down. Like or not Dayton is in the mix and will be until the day we announce our additions if we ever do. They are a quality program and would definitely add value to the conference.If they were in Detroit, Baktimore, Boston or Pittsburgh they'd be a slam dunk.

[Xudash]

Jesus Christ X fans calm it down. Like or not Dayton is in the mix and will be until the day we announce our additions if we ever do. They are a quality program and would definitely add value to the conference.If they were in Detroit, Baktimore, Boston or Pittsburgh they'd be a slam dunk.

I love how it's always about Xavier fans having to "calm it down" when it comes to this topic.

You need to understand a couple things, if you don't already:

1. Xavier doesn't fear UD. UD has been referred to as Xavier's "Little Brother" for years and for obvious reasons. This isn't about that.

2. UD absolutely has positives as a program, including a loyal fanbase, but a lot of the rest of it is yet to be proven.

First and foremost, I really don't need to read about the UD market being valuable for television purposes. It just isn't in the scheme of things - - specifically when looking at the bigger picture of what this conference wants to achieve with its media partner. UD obviously isn't located in any of those other cities you mentioned, so they're no kind of "dunk" as far as that goes.

Secondly, UD has ZERO track record - actually, it has a negative record - when it comes to replacing coaches. Archie Miller is not long for that program, probably especially given the fact that UD has kept law enforcement officials in Montgomery County busy now for three straight years. I believe they lost their AD a while ago, so, assuming they've announced a new one, that individual will have to prove himself on the next hire. Until Archie, they've been horrid at that very important function.

I haven't commented much on this topic lately because I truly believe we're locked into a 10 member conference situation for the foreseeable future. It's just that this isn't about always being automatically about a Xavier/UD pissing match. If a UD fan wants to come on here and spout out hundreds of words of justification that heavily rely on two years of data, I'd say he wasted his time.

If you want to consider UD as being one of the top non-football candidates, I'd say knock yourself out; it's a free country.

Otherwise, if a Xavier fan wants to spend a few minutes shooting holes in that guy's drivel, as a Xavier fan and a Big East fan, he has every right to do that.

[Hoopfan]

Jesus Christ X fans calm it down. Like or not Dayton is in the mix and will be until the day we announce our additions if we ever do. They are a quality program and would definitely add value to the conference.If they were in Detroit, Baktimore, Boston or Pittsburgh they'd be a slam dunk.

I love how it's always about Xavier fans having to "calm it down" when it comes to this topic.

You need to understand a couple things, if you don't already:

1. Xavier doesn't fear UD. UD has been referred to as Xavier's "Little Brother" for years and for obvious reasons. This isn't about that.

2. UD absolutely has positives as a program, including a loyal fanbase, but a lot of the rest of it is yet to be proven.

First and foremost, I really don't need to read about the UD market being valuable for television purposes. It just isn't in the scheme of things - - specifically when looking at the bigger picture of what this conference wants to achieve with its media partner. UD obviously isn't located in any of those other cities you mentioned, so they're no kind of "dunk" as far as that goes.

Secondly, UD has ZERO track record - actually, it has a negative record - when it comes to replacing coaches. Archie Miller is not long for that program, probably especially given the fact that UD has kept law enforcement officials in Montgomery County busy now for three straight years. I believe they lost their AD a while ago, so, assuming they've announced a new one, that individual will have to prove himself on the next hire. Until Archie, they've been horrid at that very important function.

I haven't commented much on this topic lately because I truly believe we're locked into a 10 member conference situation for the foreseeable future. It's just that this isn't about always being automatically about a Xavier/UD pissing match. If a UD fan wants to come on here and spout out hundreds of words of justification that heavily rely on two years of data, I'd say he wasted his time.

If you want to consider UD as being one of the top non-football candidates, I'd say knock yourself out; it's a free country.

Otherwise, if a Xavier fan wants to spend a few minutes shooting holes in that guy's drivel, as a Xavier fan and a Big East fan, he has every right to do that.

By X fans? Cant say ive ever heard this term used

[MUBoxer]

The purpose of my lengthy post is to provide relevant verifiable information – not to annoy the BE fans who dislike Dayton.

Like most on this board, I believe that it is in the best interests of the Big East to remain at 10 teams for the foreseeable future.

I don’t see the BE ever inviting a public school to join the conference, and I don’t see Gonzaga ever being interested in joining an East Coast/Midwest conference (due to travel time and expense). That pretty much leaves Dayton, Saint Louis, and Richmond in the running for possible expansion, and at the present time, neither Saint Louis nor Richmond would add value to the Big East brand.

And neither would Dayton. Without writing a two thousand word post, you've had ONE tournament run in the last 25 years. ONE..... Last year you were the LAST team in the tournament, won a "first four" game on your home floor for fucks sake and then essentially played another home game in Columbus. Get over it. And it's downright delusional and sad to hear Dayton spout off about how they have some type of national relevance on the college basketball landscape. You, don't. George Mason made it to a Final Four in the last 15 years. Does that make them relevant on the national landscape? No.


DAYTON
In 20 years (The A-10) you've won your own conference tournament 1 TIME....on your own floor.
n 20 years (the A-10) you've NEVER won an outright regular season championship.

You can write pages and page filled with charts, graphs, and algorithms, those are THE facts......its just not there. If you were to have a record that was half of what a Gonzaga offered, it would be a different story. Now compare that record to two of our newest esteemed colleagues.

CREIGHTON
-20 years Conference Tornament Champions 8 times
-20 years Regular season champions 4 times

BUTLER
20 years Conference Tournament Champions 7 times
20 years Regular Season Champions 10 times

You can be hooked on phonics and still see such a monumental difference. The ONLY reason Dayton is even being discussed is a complete lack of options due to the schools needing to be private, catholic, and in a certain region.

An invite is not deserved now or in the near future. If Dayton goes on an extended run over the next 15 years, then this should be revisited. Why the hell would you think you deserve an invite to the Big East when you struggle in the A10????? Each of the three teams chosen all dominated their conferences to a certain degree. Then again, the majority of Dayton fans are entirely incapable of following very simple logic. Dayton is NOTHING more than a slightly above average team in an above average mid major conference. There's absolutely nothing you can say to change that.

Now seriously, why is a Dayton fan on a Big East board? Frankly, it's creepy and weird.

ITS A MISTAKE TO EVEN CONSIDER A SCHOOL THAT DOESNT HAVE AT LEAST COMPARABLE CREDENTIALS TO THE TWO TEAMS LISTED ABOVE (Creighton/Butler) and X.

I'm not the biggest fan of Dayton but you're comparing conference championships which is fine I guess but truly it's NCAA work that matters. Marquette has one of the more storied histories and we've won less conference championships (regular and tournament) than Dayton.

If you look at those NCAA results Dayton goes

16 Appearances, 7 S16, 3 E8, 1 FF, 1 RU, 0 NC

Creighton goes

19 Appearances, 3 S16, 1 E8, 0 FF, 0 RU, 0 NC

Butler goes

13 Appearances, 5 S16, 2 E8, 2 FF, 2 RU, 0 NC

So really in terms of all time quality of a program Dayton's not that bad. So like you said you can do all sorts of algorythms etc to show that Dayton doesn't belong they'll do a ton showing they do. Dayton's not a great fit, they're better than anything else and have the most potential to play themselves into the conference of any school at this point. Even if Archie leaves it won't effect the invite Depaul got an invite in 05 (over Xavier if that's not a slap I don't know what is) and Leitao left prior to the start of the BIg East.

[muskienick]

But it is illogical to use those metrics (NCAA success) if you must include records from many decades ago to assemble respectable numbers. Programs change over the years and comparisons of the three members added by the "Catholic 7" to UD were made on the basis of RECENT history (i.e. last 10-15 years). Going back to the '60's - 80's is fine for nostalgia, but it is totally ineffective for selecting the best available programs to add to one's Conference!

[DemonLS]

MU,

You do not understand how marketing and TV works, do you? Of course, DePaul should have been added! Chicago and New York NEED to be the anchors for this conference to reach its fullest potential.

You must be a younger fan.

Yes, DePaul has been down for 20 years but the opportunity to get back is big with this program.

They will figure this out.....they need too.....with a new state-of-the-art facility coming right around the corner. A new AD may be required.

I will say this again.....you ALL should hope that St. John's and DePaul pick up their programs. If you don't believe me, then contact Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson and ask their opinion.

[Xudash]

Jesus Christ X fans calm it down. Like or not Dayton is in the mix and will be until the day we announce our additions if we ever do. They are a quality program and would definitely add value to the conference.If they were in Detroit, Baktimore, Boston or Pittsburgh they'd be a slam dunk.

I love how it's always about Xavier fans having to "calm it down" when it comes to this topic.

You need to understand a couple things, if you don't already:

1. Xavier doesn't fear UD. UD has been referred to as Xavier's "Little Brother" for years and for obvious reasons. This isn't about that.

2. UD absolutely has positives as a program, including a loyal fanbase, but a lot of the rest of it is yet to be proven.

First and foremost, I really don't need to read about the UD market being valuable for television purposes. It just isn't in the scheme of things - - specifically when looking at the bigger picture of what this conference wants to achieve with its media partner. UD obviously isn't located in any of those other cities you mentioned, so they're no kind of "dunk" as far as that goes.

Secondly, UD has ZERO track record - actually, it has a negative record - when it comes to replacing coaches. Archie Miller is not long for that program, probably especially given the fact that UD has kept law enforcement officials in Montgomery County busy now for three straight years. I believe they lost their AD a while ago, so, assuming they've announced a new one, that individual will have to prove himself on the next hire. Until Archie, they've been horrid at that very important function.

I haven't commented much on this topic lately because I truly believe we're locked into a 10 member conference situation for the foreseeable future. It's just that this isn't about always being automatically about a Xavier/UD pissing match. If a UD fan wants to come on here and spout out hundreds of words of justification that heavily rely on two years of data, I'd say he wasted his time.

If you want to consider UD as being one of the top non-football candidates, I'd say knock yourself out; it's a free country.

Otherwise, if a Xavier fan wants to spend a few minutes shooting holes in that guy's drivel, as a Xavier fan and a Big East fan, he has every right to do that.

By X fans? Cant say ive ever heard this term used

Then you're not an X fan are you?

Are you a UD fan? If so, your response wasn't necessary on a Big East board. And Demon is spot on. By extension, UD makes no sense due to its location and TV market.

[DudeAnon]

Dayton is X's little brother. They literally hired an X coach's little brother.

[GoldenWarrior11]

MU,

You do not understand how marketing and TV works, do you? Of course, DePaul should have been added! Chicago and New York NEED to be the anchors for this conference to reach its fullest potential.

You must be a younger fan.

Yes, DePaul has been down for 20 years but the opportunity to get back is big with this program.

They will figure this out.....they need too.....with a new state-of-the-art facility coming right around the corner. A new AD may be required.

I will say this again.....you ALL should hope that St. John's and DePaul pick up their programs. If you don't believe me, then contact Val Ackerman and Stu Jackson and ask their opinion.

That new, state-of-the-art facility, which was announced in May of 2013, still, as of October 2015, has not broken ground - nearly two years later. Meanwhile (for comparison's sake) 90 miles north in Milwaukee, the brand new Bucks facility (which Marquette gets to continue sharing with an NBA franchise) - which was announced in April of this year - will be breaking ground in the coming weeks. DePaul is not any closer than it was two years ago to getting a new arena. That 2017 date of completion expectancy will flat out not happen. I won't even get into the argument of how this supposed new arena won't be any closer to DePaul's campus for students to get to, but that's another topic for another day (as is the topic of DePaul needing a new AD).

Bottom line, DePaul needs to start winning games, period. St. Johns has shown promise over the past few years, so the conference is less worried about them. With a new exciting head coach, and several high-ranking recruits, their future is bright. DePaul, on the other hand, hired not just another retread - but a DePaul retread. If DePaul doesn't win games, that sparking new stadium won't get fans there the way Allstate Arena has been (and currently) not getting fans.

[DemonLS]

Golden,

You are a little ignorant and probably younger too. The groundbreaking has already begun! I have driven by there. Yes, politics is a little different in Chicago but it has already started.

St. John's has completely underachieved so far. Lets just see how great of a coach Chris Mullin is first before anointing him.

And BTW, Buzz Williams was running a very dirty program but MU did a wonderful job "hiding" all those problems up there in little Milwaukee.....but MU won games and that is all that matters.