Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[GoldenWarrior11]

It really only comes down to one thing for us. When the music stops and UConn doesn't have a seat in the power conference structure do they give up on their FBS FB dreams, de-emphasize FB and rejoin the Big East where they belong.

UConn is past the point of no return on their football aspirations. Had the huge realignment shift occurred 10 years earlier, UConn would be in the Big East for all sports, and football would still be in FCS. However, with the amount of resources, time and money spent on the football program in the past 10 years, they cannot afford to de-emphasize it now. Their football stadium is just over 10 years old, and their football complex and practice facility was built soon after their stadium.

The fact is that there is still hope that UConn will be in a P5 conference some day. While it seems very unlikely that they will ever be in the SEC, Big 12 or PAC-12 (location), and the B1G (academics), there is a legitimate possibility of them getting into the ACC. They have former conference mates there in Syracuse, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and Louisville, and their basketball program would just further elevate the ACC. However, until Bob Diaco (or whatever future UConn coach) can get the football program to just being average and respectable, they will need to patiently wait for another shift to occur.

[Xudash]

64 just seems too perfect a # for football for it not to eventually get there.

Big XII dissolves.
UT & OU go to the SEC.
Baylor, TCU, Tech Tech & Iowa St. go to the PAC
K St. & Okl. St. go to the B1G
ND joins ACC full time for FB & they add WVU

Left holding the bag = Kansas. Kansas then joins the BE along with UCONN. Could you imagine? (I know there is not a snowball's chance in hell, but wouldn't that sure be fun...) Two divisions: East and West.

All the old BE teams in the East play each other twice & each team in the West once.
Gtown
Nova
PC
SHU
SJU
Uconn

West:
X
Marq.
Butler
CU
DePaul
Creighton
Kansas

WOW!

I like the way you think.

One thing appears to be a given: should the 4 x 16 model come to pass, one of the existing members in the club gets the boot to make way for ND. Can you imagine being that school's administration?

Kansas in your scenario. I would see the odds on favorites for that tragic exit being BC or Wake (i.e. too "small" for the go-forward power grabbing 64). And if those two are the primary candidates, then goodbye Boston College.

[Xudash]

It really only comes down to one thing for us. When the music stops and UConn doesn't have a seat in the power conference structure do they give up on their FBS FB dreams, de-emphasize FB and rejoin the Big East where they belong.

UConn is past the point of no return on their football aspirations. Had the huge realignment shift occurred 10 years earlier, UConn would be in the Big East for all sports, and football would still be in FCS. However, with the amount of resources, time and money spent on the football program in the past 10 years, they cannot afford to de-emphasize it now. Their football stadium is just over 10 years old, and their football complex and practice facility was built soon after their stadium.

The fact is that there is still hope that UConn will be in a P5 conference some day. While it seems very unlikely that they will ever be in the SEC, Big 12 or PAC-12 (location), and the B1G (academics), there is a legitimate possibility of them getting into the ACC. They have former conference mates there in Syracuse, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and Louisville, and their basketball program would just further elevate the ACC. However, until Bob Diaco (or whatever future UConn coach) can get the football program to just being average and respectable, they will need to patiently wait for another shift to occur.

Fair argument. Here's the counter argument: while it is appropriate to focus on all the investment made to-date in UCONN's football program, it also must be true that UCONN's administration must focus on OPERATING RESULTS moving forward. In other words, regardless of the amount of capital sunk into infrastructure, the State of Connecticut cannot afford to proceed into the future funding its flagship university's football losses forever, especially at the level those losses will likely be once the old Big East exit credit funding winds down. That's about "throwing good money after bad" as the old adage goes.

Beyond that, I don't believe people at UC and UCONN and any of the other left-out schools have focused on a hard reality: the current P5 "club" already has 65 members. That most likely means no more additions (it may even eventually lead to one of the existing members getting the boot). Beyond that, adding schools from here has to make sense for television. UCONN football for the ACC will not make sense for TV.

I believe UCONN and UC are stuck, though that isn't stopping UC from spending money on both Nippert and 5/3 Arena.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Fair counterpoint, Dash.

I would say that history has shown that realignment never stops. While conference alignment may lay dormant for several years, there are always shifts for what schools think is in their best interests. There was a time when many schools were independent. Marquette for example, even without football, was an independent for nearly 75 years - and has been in 4 conferences in the past 25 years. Virginia Tech has been a member in the Southern Conference, Metro Conference, Big East Conference, Atlantic-10 Conference, Atlantic Coast Conference, as well as an independent - all in the past 40 years. Many schools went through numerous conference affiliations, mostly due to the ever changing landscape of collegiate athletics.

I would also say that, in regards to money being spent, Cincinnati, Connecticut and USF (the three schools that were left out during the last go-around), can actually afford to wait and pump money back into their athletic programs because they collected a significant amount of exit fees from when the original Big East schools that separated (West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Notre Dame). In our separation agreement (between the AAC and BE), I believe that those three schools got close to $90 million total of the war chest that was left behind. It appears that they are pumping some of those funds into renovations of their current athletic facilities (Cincinnati for sure) to appeal to the power conferences for an invitation.

[DudeAnon]

I was just writing about how 4x16 is seeming more and more inevitable when this pops up.

http://deadspin.com/report-five-big-12- ... 1720407682

Seems 5 B12 schools almost left for the BIG 10.

But according to a report from the Omaha World-Herald, the Big 12 was nearly eviscerated in 2010, with five of its stronger programs sniffing around the greener pastures of the Big Ten.

[NJRedman]

It really only comes down to one thing for us. When the music stops and UConn doesn't have a seat in the power conference structure do they give up on their FBS FB dreams, de-emphasize FB and rejoin the Big East where they belong.

UConn is past the point of no return on their football aspirations. Had the huge realignment shift occurred 10 years earlier, UConn would be in the Big East for all sports, and football would still be in FCS. However, with the amount of resources, time and money spent on the football program in the past 10 years, they cannot afford to de-emphasize it now. Their football stadium is just over 10 years old, and their football complex and practice facility was built soon after their stadium.

The fact is that there is still hope that UConn will be in a P5 conference some day. While it seems very unlikely that they will ever be in the SEC, Big 12 or PAC-12 (location), and the B1G (academics), there is a legitimate possibility of them getting into the ACC. They have former conference mates there in Syracuse, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and Louisville, and their basketball program would just further elevate the ACC. However, until Bob Diaco (or whatever future UConn coach) can get the football program to just being average and respectable, they will need to patiently wait for another shift to occur.

Fair argument. Here's the counter argument: while it is appropriate to focus on all the investment made to-date in UCONN's football program, it also must be true that UCONN's administration must focus on OPERATING RESULTS moving forward. In other words, regardless of the amount of capital sunk into infrastructure, the State of Connecticut cannot afford to proceed into the future funding its flagship university's football losses forever, especially at the level those losses will likely be once the old Big East exit credit funding winds down. That's about "throwing good money after bad" as the old adage goes.

Beyond that, I don't believe people at UC and UCONN and any of the other left-out schools have focused on a hard reality: the current P5 "club" already has 65 members. That most likely means no more additions (it may even eventually lead to one of the existing members getting the boot). Beyond that, adding schools from here has to make sense for television. UCONN football for the ACC will not make sense for TV.

I believe UCONN and UC are stuck, though that isn't stopping UC from spending money on both Nippert and 5/3 Arena.

While I agree about UConn, I don't in regards to UC and that the door is closed forever. I see 16 being the magic # for these power conferences and UC has an ally in the ACC (UofL) who could help them get in when that time comes. I think ND eventually joins them full time and UC as another western team with good FB and respectable BBall.

As I can see it possibly shaking out.

Pac-12

West:
Oregon
OSU
Washington
WSU
Cal
Stanford
UCLA
USC

East:
Texas
Tech
OU
OSU
ASU
UA
Colorado
Utah

SEC

East:
UGA
UF
Vandy
WVU
Tennessee
UK
USC
Mizz

West:
Bama
Auburn
A&M
Arkansas
Ole Miss
MSU
LSU
TCU

B1G:

East:
Rutgers
Maryland
PSU
Michigan
MSU
OSU
UVA
Indiana

West:
Wisconsin
Illinois
NW
Purdue
Minnesota
Nebraska
Kansas
Iowa

ACC

North:
Cuse
BC
Pitt
ND
UofL
Cincy
VT
Miami

South:
FSU
Clemson
GT
UNC
Duke
NC St
Wake
Baylor


The leftovers keep the Big XII name and invite the best they can get.

Big XII

East:
Memphis
ECU
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU
Tulsa
Tulane

West:
BYU
Boise
CSU
Nevada
ISU
KSU
Fresno
SD St

UConn and Temple are offered full membership in the MAC.

[GoldenWarrior11]

If Iowa State is the only remaining school in the hypothesized Big 12, then I think the conference would just simply dissolve. Iowa State would just be added to either the AAC or the Mountain West.

[GumbyDamnit!]

If the Premeir Big12 schools (OU, UT, Okl St., Baylor, Texas Tech) bolt then the "new" Big12 competes against the AAC not the others. Now as XDash brings up if FB does drive the bus (fallout be damned) then maybe Wake, Kansas and Duke should all feel a little sqeemish. More so than the other schools they are clearly BB schools first with very little long term, consistent FB success to speak of.

[trephin]

re: UConn's finances

Has everyone seen actual numbers? how much does football really drain the school? what is the AAC rules with bowls? are they shared equally? even if UConn never gets into the P5, can the occasional playoff once a decade or so plus the conference's other school's bowls be enough maybe not to be in the black but enough to not be a sink hole especially in the non financial argument how football is advertising?

I suspect that the investment is too great for them to ever give up football.

oh, and is it really their academics keeping them out of the B1G as opposed to just on field success? They may not be AAU but I always thought their academics were pretty sharp?

[TBC Alum]

I was just writing about how 4x16 is seeming more and more inevitable when this pops up.

http://deadspin.com/report-five-big-12- ... 1720407682

Seems 5 B12 schools almost left for the BIG 10.

But according to a report from the Omaha World-Herald, the Big 12 was nearly eviscerated in 2010, with five of its stronger programs sniffing around the greener pastures of the Big Ten.

The five programs mentioned were Nebraska, Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas A&M.
From the article:

Five summers ago, Texas rattled the Big 12 to its core by threatening to bolt to what then was the Pac-10, with five other league members trailing along.

Some Big 12 schools involved wanted no part of such a move or the travel associated with it and began exploring other options. I first heard of this at the time and again two years ago, but it wasn’t until last week’s Big 12 media days that I found a second source with direct knowledge to confirm it.

Was this a concrete proposal for realignment? No.

But it was much, much more than cocktail-napkin speculation.

A Big 12 athletic director, who spoke to The World-Herald on condition of anonymity, said he contacted Big Ten athletic directors and presidents with whom he was familiar in June 2010.

The topic: Was the Big Ten, which had 11 members at the time, interested in adding five Big 12 schools?

The feedback from Big Ten school officials was positive, both sources said. The sticking point was devising a revenue-sharing plan to satisfy all. It would have taken at least three to four years for that many incoming schools to hit the financial payoffs sought for moving.

As we know, two Big 12 schools at the time decided not to wait. In June 2010, Nebraska joined the Big Ten and Colorado signed up with what became the Pac-12. Texas A&M and Missouri left a year later.