Number of Top 100 players to non-football schools

[stever20]

If you asked folks that cover the game for a living, they would tell you that the northeast isn't what it used to be. It's still very good, don't get me wrong, but it's nothing like 20-30 years ago. I know here in DC- high school basketball is as bad as I've ever seen it. Teams 15-20 years ago would just destroy the teams from today. Heck I would say just even like 5-10 years ago quite frankly.

And how has anything I've said in this thread said anything bad about the big east. I just said that the coaches in the conference are going to instead of just focusing on the NE will have to go a lot more national because the NE isn't what it used to be. That's not saying a damn thing bad about the Big East. It's saying what is reality in 2015- that you have to be more national in scope. And, I would say looking at most all the eastern schools- Providence, Georgetown, even Nova with Brunson, St John's- that's what they have done. Look at PC. They've had 8 recruits in the 2014 and 2015 class. Of the 8, only 1 is a NE kid- then 1 each in Delaware and Maryland. The other 5 are all out of the region(or 1 out of the country). Of the 12 players on the roster on scholarship this year- you have 5 out of the region, and a 6th from Quebec. They lose 2 from the region this year, along with 1 in the region. Add 3 from out of the region. I'd say that's pretty telling. Georgetown 4 recruits for 2014-15 season- and 1 was from DC- the other 3 though from NC, SC, and Chicago. So, if the NE was so hot right now, why are several of the local programs going outside of the region to find talent? I think the coaches actions speak pretty loudly.

[GumbyDamnit!]

And how has anything I've said in this thread said anything bad about the big east. I just said that the coaches in the conference are going to instead of just focusing on the NE will have to go a lot more national because the NE isn't what it used to be. That's not saying a damn thing bad about the Big East.

So, if the NE was so hot right now, why are several of the local programs going outside of the region to find talent? I think the coaches actions speak pretty loudly.

OK you want to know why many people call you out on this board...Here are some examples just in this thread alone:

1). Robinreed states that of the 6 non-FB/P5 recruits that 5 are going to the BE (positive BE post)
Stever response: "5 vs 6 or 7 is hardly a huge difference. Even if it's 7- it's non football playing schools 8, football playing schools 92. The thing that is interesting is the AAC has the exact same number of top 100 recruits in the composite ratings as we do."
Translation: No need to feel good about the BE recruiting prospects--it still is not nearly good enough. The AAC is just as good, and the P5 are all better.

2). Gumby states: "The 5 Northeast schools are in a geographic hotbed of talent." (and should do fine with recruiting as a result)
Stever : "I wouldn't say that the NE is in a geographic hotbed of talent any longer."
Translation: No need to feel good about the BE recruiting prospects--even geography doesn't help you.

3). Gumby : "I'll draw a 250 mile radius from Philly. Show me an area of the country that is even remotely close to the amount of HS basketball talent within that circle."
Stever: "I'm sorry- but the NE isn't what it used to be in recruiting. You say what area of the country that has the same amount of HS talent. How about the state of Florida. They have 10 top 100 players. Texas has 10 top 100 players."
Translation: I looked at the ESPN Top 100 and found that there were a lot of players from FL and TX on there so I'll try that.
Gumby: Actually Stever the numbers show that the NE has had 2x the number of Top 100 players than either one of those areas.

4). Stever moving the goalposts: "The NE may not be a terrible geographic area, but it's not special like it used to be. Times change. Like instead of being great it's just very good now."
Translation: OK, I will concede that I was very much wrong when I said that the NE was NO LONGER a hotbed of talent. But let me change the debate to something else to deflect from being completely wrong. I'll compare the NE now to what it was 30 years ago.

5). Stever: If anything things have shifted more towards the mid-atlantic. PA with 6, MD with 5, VA with 6. WV with 2. So NE with only 22, mid atlantic with 19.
Translation: OK, I totally forgot that Gumby stated in his original statement--that I dismissed entirely--that the region that is 250 miles from Philly that encompasses MD and northern VA. Hmmm...you know what, that IS a pretty good area for HS talent after all. OK, I better start looking to move the goalposts again.

6). Stever: "As far as your question- the NE population may not be going down- but it's not growing by the same number as other parts of the country."
Translation: Let me move the goalposts to make it more of a discussion of population growth, instead of the topic at hand which is basketball talent (which we don't have to stray from the ESPN Top 100 data to plainly see).

7). Stever: "But the fact that the SE has grown more in the last 10 years than the NE has grown in the last 30 years is huge. I counted that the SE has 37 of the top 100 ESPN 100 players this year."
Gumby response: "How many major Div 1 BB programs share that geographic footprint you speak of? Most of the ACC, Big12 and pretty much all of the SEC. So let's round it off and say 30-35 programs that get to recruit kids in "their back yard."
Stever: "My numbers didn't include Virginia with the SE(though really it is) or Kentucky. Just NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, MS, AR, LA, and TX."
Translation: Even though Gumby asked me to find a geographic area that is comparable to the DC to Boston corridor, I can't, so I'll just do a land grab until my #'s are better than his #'s." Hopefully he won't notice that from NC to TX is 1500 miles+. And from DC to Boston is only 400.

8). Stever: "The talent in the VA to FL corridor is better than the talent in the DC to Boston corridor."
Translation: I understand that if I take all the kids from VA all the way to Florida my argument works--albeit barely. Is it really comparable to to the dense geographic landscape of what Gumby originally stated? No. But hopefully no one will notice that it is twice the size. The #'s work in my favor so I'll run with it. Also even though Gtown is minutes from VA, I will grab all of that state for my side of the argument--because without the VA guys my #'s don't work.

"Here's the thing" Stever... If you had simply stated that population growth may cause our schools to expand their recruiting circles, then we could have all probably agreed and discussed that. But, like most threads, you refuse to give the BE any credit whatsoever. In fact you look for every opportunity to prove everyone wrong when they make any statement that paints the conference in a good light. The fact remains that there are a LOT of great players coming out of the NE/Mid Atlantic region. Will we get them all? No. Will we never get kids from TX, FL or wherever either? No. But for kids who want to stay "close to home" so their parents can watch them play in college, there are 5 BE schools within a few hundred miles of a great HOTBED OF TALENT. I believe that to be significant. The best school in the conference the past 2 years has their entire roster from this area, with the exception of 1 kid from Chicago, who used to live in Philly as a kid, and wanted to return. Maybe if the other BE schools like SHU and SJU followed that same recruiting strategy, they might find themselves in better shape in the conference.

Either way your contribution to this forum does not exceed the negativity created IMO. And others are probably sick and tired of both of us continuing this debate ad nauseum. So I'm done here. Respond any way you want. I give you the last word.

[stever20]

The problem is population growth has already changed how schools are being built. I don't think Providence 20-30 years ago was recruiting out of the region anywhere near where they are now. Like I said- 8 recruits in the last 2 classes, and 5 of them outside the NE. That's pretty telling, no? Georgetown only 1 was from DC- the other 3 outside the region. What you are saying could possibly happen HAS ALREADY HAPPENED! And look at the move that PC just made- they replaced the assistant coach(who came to PC from Fairfield) with a guy who was in the ACC in North Carolina for 13 years. Pretty telling.

Also, where before the region had basically only 2 schools in power conferences that competed with the Big East- Maryland and BC from the ACC- now, there is a whole hell of a lot more competition. BC, Syracuse(and Pitt to a lesser degree) from the ACC, Maryland and Rutgers from the Big Ten(still strange saying that), and UConn isn't going away any time soon- plus Temple in a lot better conference now than they used to be. You say wait a second, folks that want their parents able to see their kids play a lot- A kid from NYC who goes to St John's- they would get 9 home games and 4 away games in conference play close. A kid from NYC who goes to Rutgers- they would get 9 home games and 1 away game- at Maryland(and really you could add the road game at Penn St as well- that's not too far away). So, that's 11 games. That has changed the equation considerably as well- especially I think for kids Philly north. So I think the whole region dynamic has changed there to large degree...

What you are saying seems very logical. But, I would say that actions speak louder than words. Providence and Georgetown are great examples- and how they have recruited- is very telling.

[billyjack]

The problem is population growth has already changed how schools are being built. I don't think Providence 20-30 years ago was recruiting out of the region anywhere near where they are now. Like I said- 8 recruits in the last 2 classes, and 5 of them outside the NE. That's pretty telling, no? Georgetown only 1 was from DC- the other 3 outside the region. What you are saying could possibly happen HAS ALREADY HAPPENED! And look at the move that PC just made- they replaced the assistant coach(who came to PC from Fairfield) with a guy who was in the ACC in North Carolina for 13 years. Pretty telling.

Also, where before the region had basically only 2 schools in power conferences that competed with the Big East- Maryland and BC from the ACC- now, there is a whole hell of a lot more competition. BC, Syracuse(and Pitt to a lesser degree) from the ACC, Maryland and Rutgers from the Big Ten(still strange saying that), and UConn isn't going away any time soon- plus Temple in a lot better conference now than they used to be. You say wait a second, folks that want their parents able to see their kids play a lot- A kid from NYC who goes to St John's- they would get 9 home games and 4 away games in conference play close. A kid from NYC who goes to Rutgers- they would get 9 home games and 1 away game- at Maryland(and really you could add the road game at Penn St as well- that's not too far away). So, that's 11 games. That has changed the equation considerably as well- especially I think for kids Philly north. So I think the whole region dynamic has changed there to large degree...

What you are saying seems very logical. But, I would say that actions speak louder than words. Providence and Georgetown are great examples- and how they have recruited- is very telling.

With Providence, you sound like someone who came up with a flawed idea 5 minutes ago, did a 3 minute Wikipedia search on Friar recruits, found a couple of bits of flawed, incomplete information to support your new flawed idea, and have just decided to go full throttle with it. Full throttle off the edge of the Grand Canyon like Thelma and Louise.

[stever20]

do you not agree that 5/8 recruits for PC this year and last were not in the NE?

2015
Alex Owens- Orlando, FL
Ryan Fazekas- Michigan City, IN
Drew Edwards- Towson, MD
Ricky Council- Durham, NC

2014-15 freshmen
Paschal Chukwu- Westport, CT
Jalen Lindsey- Franklin, TN
Ben Bentil- Middletown, DE
Kyron Cartwright- Compton, CA

2013-14 freshmen
Brandon Austin- Philadelphia, PA(never played)
Rodney Bullock- Hampton, VA

2012-13 freshmen
Ricky Ledo- Providence, RI(never played)
Kris Dunn- New London, CT
Josh Fortune- Hampton, VA

So 4 years where Cooley has been in charge. 13 recruits, 11 who played(or in Bullock's case should play). Of those 11- 7 of them are from outside the NE. Cooley just isn't running a local program. Nothing wrong with it- I think it's actually pretty darn smart. I think the one kid from Indiana may be even more of an indication of how recruiting may change in the Big East- going a bit more Midwest.

So tell me, how is my information incomplete or flawed?

[billyjack]

do you not agree that 5/8 recruits for PC this year and last were not in the NE?

2015
Alex Owens- Orlando, FL
Ryan Fazekas- Michigan City, IN
Drew Edwards- Towson, MD
Ricky Council- Durham, NC

2014-15 freshmen
Paschal Chukwu- Westport, CT
Jalen Lindsey- Franklin, TN
Ben Bentil- Middletown, DE
Kyron Cartwright- Compton, CA

2013-14 freshmen
Brandon Austin- Philadelphia, PA(never played)
Rodney Bullock- Hampton, VA

2012-13 freshmen
Ricky Ledo- Providence, RI(never played)
Kris Dunn- New London, CT
Josh Fortune- Hampton, VA

So 4 years where Cooley has been in charge. 13 recruits, 11 who played(or in Bullock's case should play). Of those 11- 7 of them are from outside the NE. Cooley just isn't running a local program. Nothing wrong with it- I think it's actually pretty darn smart. I think the one kid from Indiana may be even more of an indication of how recruiting may change in the Big East- going a bit more Midwest.

So tell me, how is my information incomplete or flawed?

Ok...

1. If you're counting Friar commits under Cooley, why would you NOT count Ledo and Brandon Austin...?

2. If you're counting Friars that were recruited to play under Cooley, why would you not count transfers like Desrosiers (Massachusetts) and Tyler Harris (New York)...? So 16 guys (including Harris, Desrosiers, and Kiwi Gardner from California) have committed to PC under Cooley, and 5 of those are from your expansive "southeast" of Virginia to Florida to Texas... 2 of those from Virginia (1 Va was originally a Keno Davis commit), 1 from Florida was Plan B (Owens (I forgot who Plan A was)), 1 from Tennessee has roots in Rhode Island (Jalen Lindsey's father is from Woonsocket), and 1 is from North Carolina (Ricky Council, an under the radar recruit).

3. Since you've started a discussion about how the Friars recruit, why are you only counting players that committed...? You should instead count each player that Cooley has offered a scholarship to. PC probably offers 25 or so kids a year. Off the top of my head, probably 75% are from the northeast. His Plan A for PF was Abdul Malik-Abu from Boston, and Plan B was Ben Bentil from Delaware... so you can't dismiss Abu's recruitment... (Jarred Terrell from Boston was a Friar target, eventually we replaced him with I think Cartwright from Los Angeles... so Terrell's recruitment shouldn't be dismissed). Plus we probably have more offers to Californians and Midwesterners than kids from the Southeast.

4. Cooley, formerly Bob Simon, Andre LaFleur, the whole Friar staff basically lives at New England prep schools. Typically our top choices are from these schools, like Donovan Mitchell, Abu, Jarred Terrell, Josh Sharma, Sampson, Obekpa, etc.

5. Friar Big East players in the past, including many of our stars, have probably included the same percentage of northeasterners as they do today. Marshon Brooks was from Georgia, Sharaud Curry was from Florida, Austin Croshere from Los Angeles, the 87 team was mostly outside the northeast, Otis Thorpe from Florida. Gomes, Shammgod, Donovan, Michael Smith, Simpkins, those guys were from the northeast. If you took 5 hours and looked at each past Friar roster, the percentages would be barely different than today... and "scholarship offers" would also be similar too.

[stever20]

So 16 guys total- and only 8 are from the NE. And just stop qualifying VA as not really southeast- those 2 are from NORFOLK! That's SE pure and pure.

If what you are saying is true that PC offers 25 kids and 75% are NE- that would mean like 6-7 offers would be non NE a year. That would mean then that if they are getting 2-3 non NE kids a year that they are getting 30-50% of the kids from outside the region that they are targeting. I don't think that is realistic for any program. No one gets that many kids they are targeting. Also if you are only getting 1-2 of 18 kids from the NE- something is seriously wrong there- with the success that Cooley has had, I can't imagine for a second that it's that low of a ratio.

[Jet915]

I guess you can add Lovett for SJU since he is #88 on the 247 composite along with updated Scout rankings.

Georgetown has 2: #65 Govan, #87 Derrickson
Marquette has 2: #5 Ellenson, #83 Cheatham
Nova has 1: #16 Brunson

But you could look at Rivals and you get:

Marquette: #11 Ellenson, #75 Cheatham, #90 Carter
Nova: #20 Brunson
Georgetown #40 Govan, #87 Derrickson
Crieghton #45 Patton
SJU: #62 Lovett
-----------------------------------
Xavier #115 Gates
Villanova #120 Divincenzo
Providence #131 Owens

Scout:
Marquette: #7 Ellenson, #71 Heldt, #92 Cheatham
Villanova: #26 Brunson
Creighton: #24 Patton
Georgetown: #49 Govan, #94 Derrickson
SJU: #73 Lovett

Here's 247:
Marquette: #23 Ellenson, #62 Cheatham
Villanova: #28 Brunson
Georgetown: #42 Govan
Creighton: #66 Patton
Providence: #98 Owens
Xavier: #100 Gates
-----------------------------
Villanova: #101 Divincenzo
Georgetown: #109 Derrickson
Marquette: #134 Heldt, #147 Carter
St. John's: #106 Lovett, #140 Sima

and 247 Composite

Marquette: #9 Ellenson, #75 Cheatham
Villanova: #21 Brunson
Georgetown: #46 Govan, #79 Derrickson
Creighton: #83 Patton
SJU: #88 Lovett
----------------------------------
Villanova: #115 Divincenzo
Marquette: #118 Carter, #127 Heldt
Xavier: #131 Gates
Providence: #134 Owens

[NJRedman]

And how has anything I've said in this thread said anything bad about the big east. I just said that the coaches in the conference are going to instead of just focusing on the NE will have to go a lot more national because the NE isn't what it used to be. That's not saying a damn thing bad about the Big East.

So, if the NE was so hot right now, why are several of the local programs going outside of the region to find talent? I think the coaches actions speak pretty loudly.

OK you want to know why many people call you out on this board...Here are some examples just in this thread alone:

1). Robinreed states that of the 6 non-FB/P5 recruits that 5 are going to the BE (positive BE post)
Stever response: "5 vs 6 or 7 is hardly a huge difference. Even if it's 7- it's non football playing schools 8, football playing schools 92. The thing that is interesting is the AAC has the exact same number of top 100 recruits in the composite ratings as we do."
Translation: No need to feel good about the BE recruiting prospects--it still is not nearly good enough. The AAC is just as good, and the P5 are all better.

2). Gumby states: "The 5 Northeast schools are in a geographic hotbed of talent." (and should do fine with recruiting as a result)
Stever : "I wouldn't say that the NE is in a geographic hotbed of talent any longer."
Translation: No need to feel good about the BE recruiting prospects--even geography doesn't help you.

3). Gumby : "I'll draw a 250 mile radius from Philly. Show me an area of the country that is even remotely close to the amount of HS basketball talent within that circle."
Stever: "I'm sorry- but the NE isn't what it used to be in recruiting. You say what area of the country that has the same amount of HS talent. How about the state of Florida. They have 10 top 100 players. Texas has 10 top 100 players."
Translation: I looked at the ESPN Top 100 and found that there were a lot of players from FL and TX on there so I'll try that.
Gumby: Actually Stever the numbers show that the NE has had 2x the number of Top 100 players than either one of those areas.

4). Stever moving the goalposts: "The NE may not be a terrible geographic area, but it's not special like it used to be. Times change. Like instead of being great it's just very good now."
Translation: OK, I will concede that I was very much wrong when I said that the NE was NO LONGER a hotbed of talent. But let me change the debate to something else to deflect from being completely wrong. I'll compare the NE now to what it was 30 years ago.

5). Stever: If anything things have shifted more towards the mid-atlantic. PA with 6, MD with 5, VA with 6. WV with 2. So NE with only 22, mid atlantic with 19.
Translation: OK, I totally forgot that Gumby stated in his original statement--that I dismissed entirely--that the region that is 250 miles from Philly that encompasses MD and northern VA. Hmmm...you know what, that IS a pretty good area for HS talent after all. OK, I better start looking to move the goalposts again.

6). Stever: "As far as your question- the NE population may not be going down- but it's not growing by the same number as other parts of the country."
Translation: Let me move the goalposts to make it more of a discussion of population growth, instead of the topic at hand which is basketball talent (which we don't have to stray from the ESPN Top 100 data to plainly see).

7). Stever: "But the fact that the SE has grown more in the last 10 years than the NE has grown in the last 30 years is huge. I counted that the SE has 37 of the top 100 ESPN 100 players this year."
Gumby response: "How many major Div 1 BB programs share that geographic footprint you speak of? Most of the ACC, Big12 and pretty much all of the SEC. So let's round it off and say 30-35 programs that get to recruit kids in "their back yard."
Stever: "My numbers didn't include Virginia with the SE(though really it is) or Kentucky. Just NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, MS, AR, LA, and TX."
Translation: Even though Gumby asked me to find a geographic area that is comparable to the DC to Boston corridor, I can't, so I'll just do a land grab until my #'s are better than his #'s." Hopefully he won't notice that from NC to TX is 1500 miles+. And from DC to Boston is only 400.

8). Stever: "The talent in the VA to FL corridor is better than the talent in the DC to Boston corridor."
Translation: I understand that if I take all the kids from VA all the way to Florida my argument works--albeit barely. Is it really comparable to to the dense geographic landscape of what Gumby originally stated? No. But hopefully no one will notice that it is twice the size. The #'s work in my favor so I'll run with it. Also even though Gtown is minutes from VA, I will grab all of that state for my side of the argument--because without the VA guys my #'s don't work.

"Here's the thing" Stever... If you had simply stated that population growth may cause our schools to expand their recruiting circles, then we could have all probably agreed and discussed that. But, like most threads, you refuse to give the BE any credit whatsoever. In fact you look for every opportunity to prove everyone wrong when they make any statement that paints the conference in a good light. The fact remains that there are a LOT of great players coming out of the NE/Mid Atlantic region. Will we get them all? No. Will we never get kids from TX, FL or wherever either? No. But for kids who want to stay "close to home" so their parents can watch them play in college, there are 5 BE schools within a few hundred miles of a great HOTBED OF TALENT. I believe that to be significant. The best school in the conference the past 2 years has their entire roster from this area, with the exception of 1 kid from Chicago, who used to live in Philly as a kid, and wanted to return. Maybe if the other BE schools like SHU and SJU followed that same recruiting strategy, they might find themselves in better shape in the conference.

Either way your contribution to this forum does not exceed the negativity created IMO. And others are probably sick and tired of both of us continuing this debate ad nauseum. So I'm done here. Respond any way you want. I give you the last word.

You should see him on the other boards where there are no BE fans to call him out on his BS. Apparently if the conference had just listened to HIS IDEAS we would be in much better shape. He thinks the AAC who has less nationally televised games and getting less than half our TV money has the better deal then us. He is in all his BE hating glory over there. He's a f'ing joke.

[Jet915]

And how has anything I've said in this thread said anything bad about the big east. I just said that the coaches in the conference are going to instead of just focusing on the NE will have to go a lot more national because the NE isn't what it used to be. That's not saying a damn thing bad about the Big East.

So, if the NE was so hot right now, why are several of the local programs going outside of the region to find talent? I think the coaches actions speak pretty loudly.

OK you want to know why many people call you out on this board...Here are some examples just in this thread alone:

1). Robinreed states that of the 6 non-FB/P5 recruits that 5 are going to the BE (positive BE post)
Stever response: "5 vs 6 or 7 is hardly a huge difference. Even if it's 7- it's non football playing schools 8, football playing schools 92. The thing that is interesting is the AAC has the exact same number of top 100 recruits in the composite ratings as we do."
Translation: No need to feel good about the BE recruiting prospects--it still is not nearly good enough. The AAC is just as good, and the P5 are all better.

2). Gumby states: "The 5 Northeast schools are in a geographic hotbed of talent." (and should do fine with recruiting as a result)
Stever : "I wouldn't say that the NE is in a geographic hotbed of talent any longer."
Translation: No need to feel good about the BE recruiting prospects--even geography doesn't help you.

3). Gumby : "I'll draw a 250 mile radius from Philly. Show me an area of the country that is even remotely close to the amount of HS basketball talent within that circle."
Stever: "I'm sorry- but the NE isn't what it used to be in recruiting. You say what area of the country that has the same amount of HS talent. How about the state of Florida. They have 10 top 100 players. Texas has 10 top 100 players."
Translation: I looked at the ESPN Top 100 and found that there were a lot of players from FL and TX on there so I'll try that.
Gumby: Actually Stever the numbers show that the NE has had 2x the number of Top 100 players than either one of those areas.

4). Stever moving the goalposts: "The NE may not be a terrible geographic area, but it's not special like it used to be. Times change. Like instead of being great it's just very good now."
Translation: OK, I will concede that I was very much wrong when I said that the NE was NO LONGER a hotbed of talent. But let me change the debate to something else to deflect from being completely wrong. I'll compare the NE now to what it was 30 years ago.

5). Stever: If anything things have shifted more towards the mid-atlantic. PA with 6, MD with 5, VA with 6. WV with 2. So NE with only 22, mid atlantic with 19.
Translation: OK, I totally forgot that Gumby stated in his original statement--that I dismissed entirely--that the region that is 250 miles from Philly that encompasses MD and northern VA. Hmmm...you know what, that IS a pretty good area for HS talent after all. OK, I better start looking to move the goalposts again.

6). Stever: "As far as your question- the NE population may not be going down- but it's not growing by the same number as other parts of the country."
Translation: Let me move the goalposts to make it more of a discussion of population growth, instead of the topic at hand which is basketball talent (which we don't have to stray from the ESPN Top 100 data to plainly see).

7). Stever: "But the fact that the SE has grown more in the last 10 years than the NE has grown in the last 30 years is huge. I counted that the SE has 37 of the top 100 ESPN 100 players this year."
Gumby response: "How many major Div 1 BB programs share that geographic footprint you speak of? Most of the ACC, Big12 and pretty much all of the SEC. So let's round it off and say 30-35 programs that get to recruit kids in "their back yard."
Stever: "My numbers didn't include Virginia with the SE(though really it is) or Kentucky. Just NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, TN, MS, AR, LA, and TX."
Translation: Even though Gumby asked me to find a geographic area that is comparable to the DC to Boston corridor, I can't, so I'll just do a land grab until my #'s are better than his #'s." Hopefully he won't notice that from NC to TX is 1500 miles+. And from DC to Boston is only 400.

8). Stever: "The talent in the VA to FL corridor is better than the talent in the DC to Boston corridor."
Translation: I understand that if I take all the kids from VA all the way to Florida my argument works--albeit barely. Is it really comparable to to the dense geographic landscape of what Gumby originally stated? No. But hopefully no one will notice that it is twice the size. The #'s work in my favor so I'll run with it. Also even though Gtown is minutes from VA, I will grab all of that state for my side of the argument--because without the VA guys my #'s don't work.

"Here's the thing" Stever... If you had simply stated that population growth may cause our schools to expand their recruiting circles, then we could have all probably agreed and discussed that. But, like most threads, you refuse to give the BE any credit whatsoever. In fact you look for every opportunity to prove everyone wrong when they make any statement that paints the conference in a good light. The fact remains that there are a LOT of great players coming out of the NE/Mid Atlantic region. Will we get them all? No. Will we never get kids from TX, FL or wherever either? No. But for kids who want to stay "close to home" so their parents can watch them play in college, there are 5 BE schools within a few hundred miles of a great HOTBED OF TALENT. I believe that to be significant. The best school in the conference the past 2 years has their entire roster from this area, with the exception of 1 kid from Chicago, who used to live in Philly as a kid, and wanted to return. Maybe if the other BE schools like SHU and SJU followed that same recruiting strategy, they might find themselves in better shape in the conference.

Either way your contribution to this forum does not exceed the negativity created IMO. And others are probably sick and tired of both of us continuing this debate ad nauseum. So I'm done here. Respond any way you want. I give you the last word.

You should see him on the other boards where there are no BE fans to call him out on his BS. Apparently if the conference had just listened to HIS IDEAS we would be in much better shape. He thinks the AAC who has less nationally televised games and getting less than half our TV money has the better deal then us. He is in all his BE hating glory over there. He's a f'ing joke.

If it keeps him away from here, its worth it.