Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[sheg]

Dash,

I have no intention of speaking for anyone other than myself. I find this discussion fascinating, as I have with all other conference realignment talk dating back to the time the Big Ten started making noise about adding a twelfth member. I intend to post here (in this thread only) as long as I'm welcome.

Anybody's personal feelings about any specific fan, or group of fans based on team affiliation, are really irrelevant to the discussion at hand, namely, should the conference expand, and if so, with whom? The powers that be aren't considering fan behavior on message boards, so it's not germane to the discussion. If somebody's being a jerk, use the moderation option.

I agree that for public consumption, the decision makers are likely at #4 as discussed. However, if there's anything that the last ten years has taught us about conference realignment, it's that those who are not proactive often get screwed. Ask the B12 why they no longer have CU, A&M, Nebraska, or Mizzou, but instead have TCU and WVU and why they missed out on U of L. Ask the ACC why their founding member bailed (was it ONLY for an extra $15M a year?) Ask the old Big East why its desperate hope to remain viable as a football conference had it settling for basketball junk like TCU and ECU?

The ACC, other than its Maryland loss, looks like the proactive winner. At a time when everyone thought they'd be picked apart, they instead rallied to gather the best basketball conference and solidify their football brand thanks to quasi-member ND and Louisville.

I want my conference leaders to be proactive and forward thinking, and if I'm a BE member, I want them actively discussing conference realignment regularly. Now, that discussion may conclude with "we're waiting for now," and so be it. Or it may be that they can't agree on things like public/private, football/no football, Spokane/no Spokane, et cetera, and are waiting for things to clarify.

Let me give a hypothetical reason to be proactive: say they decide that publics are welcome, and they are strongly considering WSU and VCU, but don't want to act on it for a while (so they can build the brand as you suggest). In the meantime, the AAC decides to add a 12th BB member to balance Navy. They invite one of those (either of whom would be a nice fit in that scenario) and it is accepted because that school had no indication of any interest from the BE. Now your plans are messed up. Do you take a solo public? Do you grasp at the best remaining candidate?

It's all hypothetical at this point (I suspect they'd strongly prefer to remain all private anyway), but if I'm you, I'd prefer to at least have that discussion been made and feelers put out. Or perhaps you'd prefer a scenario where your conference mates force TCU, ECU ECU, and Boise down your throat. At least have the discussions and make sure everyone's on the same page.

One thing about the BE - if they do stay private, they do have a little time, as most of their expansion choices would likely stay put for a while.

Finally, it should be clear that the foot stomping comment had nothing to do with you. A quick scan of the last few pages should clarify the object of that descriptor.

[Xudash]

Do you really think Fordham would be added? Current schools kicked out? Everything in this thread is speculation and peoples opinions. I would bet the house and then some that those never happen. We've discussed the same topic in circles for a couple years now. I've never said anything negative about X...and you can go back and research that. UD fan or not this entire thread is a what if and based on what people have posted are must haves you fail to realize that some current members dont even meet those standards. But it is what it is. I'll let you go back to hating UD since im just a guest on the internet

It isn't appropriate for you - a UD fan - to write about the idea of the Big East kicking out St. Johns, Seton Hall and DePaul. It doesn't matter whether current members don't meet some standards discussed by fans. They're current members. Now I'm sure you're going to take this as more "UD hate" but you really need to realize that St. Johns is much, much more valuable to the Big East than UD could ever hope to be. I can't wait to see what Chris Mullin does with the Johnnies. DePaul, with its new facility, its size, the Chicago market and some day a legitimate basketball coach that is hired by a competent AD will be just as valuable. Seton Hall already has demonstrated its full potential with its recent recruiting success.

What's next, another I'm hating UD because I make another comment about a UD fan typing about kicking out three of Xavier's Big East conference mates?

You are a guest. But you still seem to be having a hard time understanding that.

[Xudash]

Dash,

I have no intention of speaking for anyone other than myself. I find this discussion fascinating, as I have with all other conference realignment talk dating back to the time the Big Ten started making noise about adding a twelfth member. I intend to post here (in this thread only) as long as I'm welcome.

Anybody's personal feelings about any specific fan, or group of fans based on team affiliation, are really irrelevant to the discussion at hand, namely, should the conference expand, and if so, with whom? The powers that be aren't considering fan behavior on message boards, so it's not germane to the discussion. If somebody's being a jerk, use the moderation option.

I agree that for public consumption, the decision makers are likely at #4 as discussed. However, if there's anything that the last ten years has taught us about conference realignment, it's that those who are not proactive often get screwed. Ask the B12 why they no longer have CU, A&M, Nebraska, or Mizzou, but instead have TCU and WVU and why they missed out on U of L. Ask the ACC why their founding member bailed (was it ONLY for an extra $15M a year?) Ask the old Big East why its desperate hope to remain viable as a football conference had it settling for basketball junk like TCU and ECU?

The ACC, other than its Maryland loss, looks like the proactive winner. At a time when everyone thought they'd be picked apart, they instead rallied to gather the best basketball conference and solidify their football brand thanks to quasi-member ND and Louisville.

I want my conference leaders to be proactive and forward thinking, and if I'm a BE member, I want them actively discussing conference realignment regularly. Now, that discussion may conclude with "we're waiting for now," and so be it. Or it may be that they can't agree on things like public/private, football/no football, Spokane/no Spokane, et cetera, and are waiting for things to clarify.

Let me give a hypothetical reason to be proactive: say they decide that publics are welcome, and they are strongly considering WSU and VCU, but don't want to act on it for a while (so they can build the brand as you suggest). In the meantime, the AAC decides to add a 12th BB member to balance Navy. They invite one of those (either of whom would be a nice fit in that scenario) and it is accepted because that school had no indication of any interest from the BE. Now your plans are messed up. Do you take a solo public? Do you grasp at the best remaining candidate?

It's all hypothetical at this point (I suspect they'd strongly prefer to remain all private anyway), but if I'm you, I'd prefer to at least have that discussion been made and feelers put out. Or perhaps you'd prefer a scenario where your conference mates force TCU, ECU ECU, and Boise down your throat. At least have the discussions and make sure everyone's on the same page.

One thing about the BE - if they do stay private, they do have a little time, as most of their expansion choices would likely stay put for a while.

Finally, it should be clear that the foot stomping comment had nothing to do with you. A quick scan of the last few pages should clarify the object of that descriptor.

No problem sheg.

Fair post. Obviously, a key with what you wrote has everything to do with the Presidents' disposition towards public universities. If they're willing to look at publics, then I suspect they would form a task force or some form of sub-committee to assess the marketplace, if you will. Either way, I absolutely agree with you that the Presidents need to be forward thinking and proactive when they deem it appropriate to go into that mode. Beyond that, including whatever their definition of institutional fit becomes, and beyond what they may see as the perceived impact on NCAA Tournament monies per school as a result of adding additional schools, it will get back to a meeting in Manhattan with league officials and Fox executives to ascertain television impacts.

For that matter, any movement by any program at this point is going to have to make as much sense to the moving program as it does to the conference that wants that program, and that probably takes us back to the right TV fit criterion as well.

Finally, these need not be mutually exclusive activities: they can build the brand while choosing to quietly - good luck with that - assess expansion candidates when they're ready to do that. That essentially takes me back to #4, but understanding that we don't want the Presidents falling asleep at the switch. I don't see that happening with that group, nor with their ADs, nor with Fox.

[Bostonspider]

It is not like the BE leaders and presidents have not ALREADY assessed St. Louis, Dayton, Richmond and even VCU. I know for a fact that they have toured all of UR's facilities, met with the AD and President. They have all the information they need of the presumptive candidates. So IF and when they decide to make a move, it could very well be pretty "silent".

[ohiohsbball]

It is not like the BE leaders and presidents have not ALREADY assessed St. Louis, Dayton, Richmond and even VCU. I know for a fact that they have toured all of UR's facilities, met with the AD and President. They have all the information they need of the presumptive candidates. So IF and when they decide to make a move, it could very well be pretty "silent".

I agree. I don't mean to sound rude, but everyone always claims to have inside information, and I just don't believe it. I also know for a fact that they have toured Saint Louis and Dayton and during the A10 tournament met with Dr. Curran at UD. I don't know about VCU. As far as inside information, I have none but a gut feeling. That feeling is within three years of the conference starting Saint Louis and Dayton would be added; maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not. A friend of mine coaches girls basketball in Virginia and said that VCU really isn't a candidate, and wanted to start a home and home with Dayton girls basketball program. I heard that back around Thanksgiving, so who knows if that is still in the cards. These are message boards; just take everything with a grain of salt. This I am 100% sure of- the presidents are not going to be looking at these boards to determine which team they select nor are they going to be looking at all of these ridiculous mentions of Uconn dropping football and Gonzaga traveling across the country to play in the BE.

Again, just a gut feeling is that something may happen next year. Dayton is starting their lacrosse program next year and the A10 rumors are they are going after UAB and Sienna to replace Dayton and St. Louis; again just rumors, but everything I have heard are from area coaches which means nothing. These universities in the Big East and expansion candidates are going to play everything close to the vest. What I have heard are the presidents aren't really wanting to expand now, but with ratings low on FS1, Fox is pushing the issue for next year.

[_lh]

There is no reason for the BE to add in Dayton, none. Sorry.

[X-man]

It is not like the BE leaders and presidents have not ALREADY assessed St. Louis, Dayton, Richmond and even VCU. I know for a fact that they have toured all of UR's facilities, met with the AD and President. They have all the information they need of the presumptive candidates. So IF and when they decide to make a move, it could very well be pretty "silent".

I agree. I don't mean to sound rude, but everyone always claims to have inside information, and I just don't believe it. I also know for a fact that they have toured Saint Louis and Dayton and during the A10 tournament met with Dr. Curran at UD. I don't know about VCU. As far as inside information, I have none but a gut feeling. That feeling is within three years of the conference starting Saint Louis and Dayton would be added; maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not. A friend of mine coaches girls basketball in Virginia and said that VCU really isn't a candidate, and wanted to start a home and home with Dayton girls basketball program. I heard that back around Thanksgiving, so who knows if that is still in the cards. These are message boards; just take everything with a grain of salt. This I am 100% sure of- the presidents are not going to be looking at these boards to determine which team they select nor are they going to be looking at all of these ridiculous mentions of Uconn dropping football and Gonzaga traveling across the country to play in the BE.

Again, just a gut feeling is that something may happen next year. Dayton is starting their lacrosse program next year and the A10 rumors are they are going after UAB and Sienna to replace Dayton and St. Louis; again just rumors, but everything I have heard are from area coaches which means nothing. These universities in the Big East and expansion candidates are going to play everything close to the vest. What I have heard are the presidents aren't really wanting to expand now, but with ratings low on FS1, Fox is pushing the issue for next year.

And adding Dayton is going to fix the ratings??? You are seriously delusional if you think that.

[Jet915]

The only Big East expansion teams that would move the ratings would be UCONN and Gonzaga and both of those are longshots.

[DudeAnon]

Ok, here is my thing. If you think Dayton should join then you also think they should've joined initially. Their pros and cons really haven't changed that much in 2 years time.

As a previous poster said, the only moves that will actually grab headlines are UCONN and Gonzaga. Everyone else is a nice addition but nothing more.

[stever20]

Ok, here is my thing. If you think Dayton should join then you also think they should've joined initially. Their pros and cons really haven't changed that much in 2 years time.

As a previous poster said, the only moves that will actually grab headlines are UCONN and Gonzaga. Everyone else is a nice addition but nothing more.

Dayton's pros absolutely have changed some in 2 years time. Remember before 2 years ago- Dayton had 2 NCAA wins in the period from when the NCAA tourney went to 64 teams. They have gotten 5 in the last 2 years. Been in 7 NCAA games last 2 years, after being in 8 since going to 64 teams. Recent success was something that hurt them 2 years ago that has changed completely in the last 2 years. Now, not sure how big of a criteria that will be- but there's no denying that it'd help them.