Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[marquette]

Everyone gets hung up on the travel distance to Spokane, but I don't think Gonzaga would be first on the list anyhow--I still think BYU would be targeted ahead of any other western teams. It has a much larger fan base, it would actually help the league's average attendance, and we all know how well their fans travel.

Would Provo be too far? I assume Salt Lake City has a relatively major airport, especially compared to Spokane. Looking at their destinations list from Wikipedia, they have direct flights to the following Big East cities:

• Butler/Indianapolis (seasonally)
• Creighton/Omaha (seasonally)
• DePaul/Chicago
• Georgetown/Washington
• Villanova/Philadelphia
• St. Johns & Seton Hall/New York
• Xavier/Cincy

The only flights that are not direct at least part of the year are to Marquette/Milwaukee and Providence. Simply in terms of travel, I think BYU would be ahead of Gonzaga.

BYU has their own tv network where they televise most home games. They won't be added because they do nothing for Fox.

[muskienick]

Everyone gets hung up on the travel distance to Spokane, but I don't think Gonzaga would be first on the list anyhow--I still think BYU would be targeted ahead of any other western teams. It has a much larger fan base, it would actually help the league's average attendance, and we all know how well their fans travel.

Would Provo be too far? I assume Salt Lake City has a relatively major airport, especially compared to Spokane. Looking at their destinations list from Wikipedia, they have direct flights to the following Big East cities:

• Butler/Indianapolis (seasonally)
• Creighton/Omaha (seasonally)
• DePaul/Chicago
• Georgetown/Washington
• Villanova/Philadelphia
• St. Johns & Seton Hall/New York
• Xavier/Cincy

The only flights that are not direct at least part of the year are to Marquette/Milwaukee and Providence. Simply in terms of travel, I think BYU would be ahead of Gonzaga.

BYU has their own tv network where they televise most home games. They won't be added because they do nothing for Fox.

And as Bill Marsh indicated, why would the C7 accept a member with BCS-level football after what happened to them earlier? (Fool me once: shame on you. Fool me twice: shame on me!)

[GoldenWarrior11]

I can't find the 2015 NCAA attendance figures, but each Big East team finished in the top 100 in NCAA attendance in 2014.

Rank School G Attendance Average
5. Creighton 16 286,329 17,896
14. Marquette 16 245,232 15,327
42. Xavier 17 168,127 9,890
48. Villanova 16 143,092 8,943
51. Georgetown 16 138,724 8,670
56. Providence 16 133,548 8,347
59. Butler 15 116,816 7,788
66. St. John's (NY) 19 133,689 7,036
80. DePaul 17 108,178 6,363
81. Seton Hall 18 114,056 6,336

Here are the often mentioned expansion candidates and a look at their attendance figures (2014):

Rank School G Attendance Average
28. Dayton 17 209,369 12,316
36. Wichita St. 17 182,452 10,732
40. UConn 18 182,416 10,134
54. Saint Louis 17 143,278 8,428
62. VCU 15 116,115 7,741
86. Richmond 16 97,632 6,102
87. Gonzaga 15 90,000 6,000

What worries me about Gonzaga, and to an extent VCU, is that despite their history of success in basketball (which is still current) these attendance figures are about as high as each school can get, barring either school getting a new basketball arena to play in. Gonzaga plays a terrific OOC schedule every year, win the WCC nearly every year, make a run in March every now and then - but the absolute best they can do is 6,000 people per game (they sell out each and every game). They would be dead last in the Big East in average attendance per game and attendance per season. Throw in the location, which isn't anywhere near any school in the conference, and their attendance figures, and I don't see what they would be able to bring to the conference.

[stever20]

I can't find the 2015 NCAA attendance figures, but each Big East team finished in the top 100 in NCAA attendance in 2014.

Rank School G Attendance Average
5. Creighton 16 286,329 17,896
14. Marquette 16 245,232 15,327
42. Xavier 17 168,127 9,890
48. Villanova 16 143,092 8,943
51. Georgetown 16 138,724 8,670
56. Providence 16 133,548 8,347
59. Butler 15 116,816 7,788
66. St. John's (NY) 19 133,689 7,036
80. DePaul 17 108,178 6,363
81. Seton Hall 18 114,056 6,336

Here are the often mentioned expansion candidates and a look at their attendance figures (2014):

Rank School G Attendance Average
28. Dayton 17 209,369 12,316
36. Wichita St. 17 182,452 10,732
40. UConn 18 182,416 10,134
54. Saint Louis 17 143,278 8,428
62. VCU 15 116,115 7,741
86. Richmond 16 97,632 6,102
87. Gonzaga 15 90,000 6,000

What worries me about Gonzaga, and to an extent VCU, is that despite their history of success in basketball (which is still current) these attendance figures are about as high as each school can get, barring either school getting a new basketball arena to play in. Gonzaga plays a terrific OOC schedule every year, win the WCC nearly every year, make a run in March every now and then - but the absolute best they can do is 6,000 people per game (they sell out each and every game). They would be dead last in the Big East in average attendance per game and attendance per season. Throw in the location, which isn't anywhere near any school in the conference, and their attendance figures, and I don't see what they would be able to bring to the conference.

With VCU and Gonzaga (and Richmond as well)- they could have some games at a different bigger arena. I think for Richmond/VCU it's a 12,500 Richmond Coliseum.

[marquette]

The attendance argument is one I've made before and one that I firmly believe is important to the presidents from a perception standpoint. It is the reason Siena was ever considered for the BE (not attendance so much as arena size). It has been more or less buried in this thread. That said, VCU's next infrastructure plan after they build their practice facility is to increase their arena capacity to 10,000. I have wondered occasionally if the presidents might have prodded them in this direction, but it might just have been their plan all along.

EDIT: I would also expect a dropoff for SLU this season, and another one next season. I don't think they will drop below 6,000/game, but it will be significant.

DEIT #2: SLU is still my favorite based off of potential and institutional fit alone.

[stever20]

The attendance argument is one I've made before and one that I firmly believe is important to the presidents from a perception standpoint. It is the reason Siena was ever considered for the BE (not attendance so much as arena size). It has been more or less buried in this thread. That said, VCU's next infrastructure plan after they build their practice facility is to increase their arena capacity to 10,000. I have wondered occasionally if the presidents might have prodded them in this direction, but it might just have been their plan all along.

EDIT: I would also expect a dropoff for SLU this season, and another one next season. I don't think they will drop below 6,000/game, but it will be significant.

DEIT #2: SLU is still my favorite based off of potential and institutional fit alone.

This year- SLU averaged 7032. down by 16.6%.

I just don't think we can afford to add a program based off of potential. SLU has to prove that they were more than Rick Majerus. He's responsible for 3 of the 7 NCAA tournament appearances for them in the last 50 years.

[Bluejay]

Everyone gets hung up on the travel distance to Spokane, but I don't think Gonzaga would be first on the list anyhow--I still think BYU would be targeted ahead of any other western teams. It has a much larger fan base, it would actually help the league's average attendance, and we all know how well their fans travel.

Would Provo be too far? I assume Salt Lake City has a relatively major airport, especially compared to Spokane. Looking at their destinations list from Wikipedia, they have direct flights to the following Big East cities:

• Butler/Indianapolis (seasonally)
• Creighton/Omaha (seasonally)
• DePaul/Chicago
• Georgetown/Washington
• Villanova/Philadelphia
• St. Johns & Seton Hall/New York
• Xavier/Cincy

The only flights that are not direct at least part of the year are to Marquette/Milwaukee and Providence. Simply in terms of travel, I think BYU would be ahead of Gonzaga.

Early on I thought that BYU and Gonzaga would make perfect travel partners. It seemed that BYU was as serious as Notre Dame about their commitment to independence in football. However, now I'm not so sure. Recent comments by BYU AD, Bruno Mendenhall, seem to suggest that they're looking for membership in a P5 conference. If so, the Big XII would seem to be a natural fit for them. It fell through before, but in today's climate I think they'd work out any of the sticking points such as the Mormons' objection to playing games on Sundays.

One of the main reason BYU remains outside of a major conference is because they will not allow any sports activities on Sunday. That's makes scheduling a royal pain in the backside, especially for the non-revenue sports. As an example, look at baseball - in conference play, like most conferences in the country, we play a 3 day weekend series - Fri, Sat & Sun. Couldn't do that with BYU.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The attendance argument is one I've made before and one that I firmly believe is important to the presidents from a perception standpoint. It is the reason Siena was ever considered for the BE (not attendance so much as arena size). It has been more or less buried in this thread. That said, VCU's next infrastructure plan after they build their practice facility is to increase their arena capacity to 10,000. I have wondered occasionally if the presidents might have prodded them in this direction, but it might just have been their plan all along.

EDIT: I would also expect a dropoff for SLU this season, and another one next season. I don't think they will drop below 6,000/game, but it will be significant.

DEIT #2: SLU is still my favorite based off of potential and institutional fit alone.

I completely agree regarding SLU. I also think, despite the dropoff and struggles they have had this year/next year, that they would improve immensely under the Big East banner. They would be able to recruit better and get better games (attendance wise) in conference. They are a fit in everything except March success - which is definitely attainable considering their market/resources.

With all of the jokes made regarding Dayton on here, no one can deny that their membership would bump up our attendance. Their 13k+ per game would only add viewership and ticket sales, not to mention another passionate fan base to buy tickets in NYC for the BE Tournament.

IF, and that's a big if, VCU were to build a new on-campus facility that would get them 10k per game, then, and only then, would they be a candidate to be paired with either a UCONN or Wichita State (REALLY big if). VCU, as a public, isn't coming in alone without another public school to join with them.

[marquette]

The attendance argument is one I've made before and one that I firmly believe is important to the presidents from a perception standpoint. It is the reason Siena was ever considered for the BE (not attendance so much as arena size). It has been more or less buried in this thread. That said, VCU's next infrastructure plan after they build their practice facility is to increase their arena capacity to 10,000. I have wondered occasionally if the presidents might have prodded them in this direction, but it might just have been their plan all along.

EDIT: I would also expect a dropoff for SLU this season, and another one next season. I don't think they will drop below 6,000/game, but it will be significant.

DEIT #2: SLU is still my favorite based off of potential and institutional fit alone.

I completely agree regarding SLU. I also think, despite the dropoff and struggles they have had this year/next year, that they would improve immensely under the Big East banner. They would be able to recruit better and get better games (attendance wise) in conference. They are a fit in everything except March success - which is definitely attainable considering their market/resources.

With all of the jokes made regarding Dayton on here, no one can deny that their membership would bump up our attendance. Their 13k+ per game would only add viewership and ticket sales, not to mention another passionate fan base to buy tickets in NYC for the BE Tournament.

IF, and that's a big if, VCU were to build a new on-campus facility that would get them 10k per game, then, and only then, would they be a candidate to be paired with either a UCONN or Wichita State (REALLY big if). VCU, as a public, isn't coming in alone without another public school to join with them.

We basically agree. There are too many things to love about SLU for them to not be a serious candidate (albeit maybe not perfect). They have the facilities, the local market recruits (fingers crossed that they pull Jayson Tatum), the academic prestige (top 100 ranking, although barely), the endowment (over a billion at this point), the institutional fit (sister school to Marquette, Georgetown, Creighton, and Xavier), the location (in the current footprint), and, of personal interest as a former player, the most storied soccer program in D1. They've also shown that they can achieve great things given the right coach.

[Bill Marsh]

I can't find the 2015 NCAA attendance figures, but each Big East team finished in the top 100 in NCAA attendance in 2014.

Rank School G Attendance Average
5. Creighton 16 286,329 17,896
14. Marquette 16 245,232 15,327
42. Xavier 17 168,127 9,890
48. Villanova 16 143,092 8,943
51. Georgetown 16 138,724 8,670
56. Providence 16 133,548 8,347
59. Butler 15 116,816 7,788
66. St. John's (NY) 19 133,689 7,036
80. DePaul 17 108,178 6,363
81. Seton Hall 18 114,056 6,336

Here are the often mentioned expansion candidates and a look at their attendance figures (2014):

Rank School G Attendance Average
28. Dayton 17 209,369 12,316
36. Wichita St. 17 182,452 10,732
40. UConn 18 182,416 10,134
54. Saint Louis 17 143,278 8,428
62. VCU 15 116,115 7,741
86. Richmond 16 97,632 6,102
87. Gonzaga 15 90,000 6,000

What worries me about Gonzaga, and to an extent VCU, is that despite their history of success in basketball (which is still current) these attendance figures are about as high as each school can get, barring either school getting a new basketball arena to play in. Gonzaga plays a terrific OOC schedule every year, win the WCC nearly every year, make a run in March every now and then - but the absolute best they can do is 6,000 people per game (they sell out each and every game). They would be dead last in the Big East in average attendance per game and attendance per season. Throw in the location, which isn't anywhere near any school in the conference, and their attendance figures, and I don't see what they would be able to bring to the conference.

Gonzaga can move games to Veteran's Memorial Coliseum in Spokane, which has a capacity of 12,600.