stever20 wrote:About Conference USA back in 2005 and 2003- they absolutely were not a power conference...
2005- in Ken Pom- they were #9 conference
2003- in Ken Pom- they were #7 conference
MUAvalanche wrote:stever20 wrote:About Conference USA back in 2005 and 2003- they absolutely were not a power conference...
2005- in Ken Pom- they were #9 conference
2003- in Ken Pom- they were #7 conference
CUSA was half a power conference at the time. UofL, Cincy, MU, DePaul, Charlotte, SLU, Memphis and UAB made tournament appearances and formed a group that was competitive with power conferences. The remaining teams (Houston, ECU, Tulane, S. Miss, USF, TCU) did not help basketball. Think AAC with 4 nonFB schools to enhance basketball.
stever20 wrote:
Also your numbers are off a bit- it's only 24 seasons since 1991. You either have to include UNLV in '91 or it's 24 years(96 final 4 teams). Also would note that your numbers aren't including the 2 vacated teams(Memphis and UMass). That's fine, but then instead of saying only 9 of 100 it would be 9 of 92(there were 4 other final 4 teams that got vacated). If you say you have to include those vacated teams, then it's 11 of 96.
Bill Marsh wrote:stever20 wrote:
Also your numbers are off a bit- it's only 24 seasons since 1991. You either have to include UNLV in '91 or it's 24 years(96 final 4 teams). Also would note that your numbers aren't including the 2 vacated teams(Memphis and UMass). That's fine, but then instead of saying only 9 of 100 it would be 9 of 92(there were 4 other final 4 teams that got vacated). If you say you have to include those vacated teams, then it's 11 of 96.
Count with me, Stever . . .
1991-2000 = 10
2001-2010 = 10
2011-2015 = 5
Total = 25
Including UNLV in 1991 is a fair point?
I did include Memphis and UMass. Who are you counting?
UMass (1996)
George Mason (2007)
Memphis (2008)
Butler (2010, 2011)
VCU (2011)
Wichita State (2013)
Those were my 7. I should have included UNLV, so that makes 8. I don't agree with CUSA before the Big East defections not being a power conference, but I won't argue the point. So Marquette and Louisville makes 10.
The fact that 90% of the Final Fours in a quarter century demonstrates how dominating the power conferences have been. The 10% outside that group shows that while possible! the odds are heavily stacked against those teams especially when #1 Gonzaga and undefeated Wichita .state both got knocked off.
Moreover, no one from outside the power conference has been able to have sustained success in this period the way a number of power conference schools have.
stever20 wrote:Bill Marsh wrote:stever20 wrote:
Also your numbers are off a bit- it's only 24 seasons since 1991. You either have to include UNLV in '91 or it's 24 years(96 final 4 teams). Also would note that your numbers aren't including the 2 vacated teams(Memphis and UMass). That's fine, but then instead of saying only 9 of 100 it would be 9 of 92(there were 4 other final 4 teams that got vacated). If you say you have to include those vacated teams, then it's 11 of 96.
Count with me, Stever . . .
1991-2000 = 10
2001-2010 = 10
2011-2015 = 5
Total = 25
Including UNLV in 1991 is a fair point?
I did include Memphis and UMass. Who are you counting?
UMass (1996)
George Mason (2007)
Memphis (2008)
Butler (2010, 2011)
VCU (2011)
Wichita State (2013)
Those were my 7. I should have included UNLV, so that makes 8. I don't agree with CUSA before the Big East defections not being a power conference, but I won't argue the point. So Marquette and Louisville makes 10.
The fact that 90% of the Final Fours in a quarter century demonstrates how dominating the power conferences have been. The 10% outside that group shows that while possible! the odds are heavily stacked against those teams especially when #1 Gonzaga and undefeated Wichita .state both got knocked off.
Moreover, no one from outside the power conference has been able to have sustained success in this period the way a number of power conference schools have.
Utah in 1998 out of the WAC. Cincy in 1992 in the Great Midwest.
So the list is-
1 UNLV 1991
2 Cincy 1992
3 UMass 1996
4 Utah 1998
5 Marquette 2003
6 Louisville 2005
7 George Mason 2006
8 Memphis 2008
9 Butler 2010
10 Butler 2011
11 VCU 2011
12 Wichita 2013
stever20 wrote:One point, in the 25 years only 39 different schools have gone to the final 4. Over half of the final 4's in the last 25 years are by 8 teams- UNC(9), Duke(8), Kentucky(8), Mich St(7), Kansas(6), Florida(5), UConn(5), and UCLA(4). 6 others been 3 times- Michigan, Arizona, Syracuse, Ohio St, Wisconsin, and Louisville. So 70/100 final 4 teams in the last 25 years by 14 programs. The other 30 teams done by 25 programs.
Bill Marsh wrote:stever20 wrote:One point, in the 25 years only 39 different schools have gone to the final 4. Over half of the final 4's in the last 25 years are by 8 teams- UNC(9), Duke(8), Kentucky(8), Mich St(7), Kansas(6), Florida(5), UConn(5), and UCLA(4). 6 others been 3 times- Michigan, Arizona, Syracuse, Ohio St, Wisconsin, and Louisville. So 70/100 final 4 teams in the last 25 years by 14 programs. The other 30 teams done by 25 programs.
Exactly. And all 14 of those programs have sustained their success by being in power conferences while mid majors who make a run to the Final Four are programs that invariably fizzle out if they don't join a power conference.
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