Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[R Jay]

Some UD fans are here, and only here posting ACTUAL FACTS, because posters like you keep making up crap about Dayton that isn't true and then calling UD fans trolls for actually posting TRUE FACTS.

You want facts? 1990-2000. No NCAA Tournament appearances. 6 losing seasons.

[Gopher+RamFan]

They're not a slam dunk candidate because they're public, but they'd instantly be the hated team in conference (being public).

I agree with all of your analysis of VCU except this point. I don't believe there is this "public vs. private" battle when it comes to students or fans. The only place that matters is in the board rooms where the presidents discuss expansion and on message boards where we discuss what we believe the Presidents are discussing. Thus, I don't think their addition would make them the most hated or create rivalries instantly.
I'd argue that rivalries are created over time. An example I use is when Nebraska joined the Big Ten. The conference and Iowa and Nebraska tried to create a rivalry between the two overnight, but there were no grounds for it at first. Over time that's changed, but I still wouldn't call Nebraska-Iowa a real rivalry like Nebraska-Colorado, Nebraska-Missouri, and certainly Nebraska-Oklahoma.
Back to the Big East, I don't think there are any inter-conference rivalries yet besides Seton Hall-St. John's and they certainly didn't come to hate each other overnight. For so long the C7 was an afterthought in the conference because many were populating the cellar and the important rivalries which nothing else could be compared were Georgetown-Syracuse, Syracuse-UCONN, Marquette-Louisville, and to a lesser extent Villanova-Syracuse. The unbalanced scheduling didn't help matters, either. That doesn't mean to say that there isn't dislike between the current 10 schools, but that besides SHU-SJU, there isn't anything I would define as a rivalry.
All that said, I think rivalries will develop as the years go on and we play more games with a lot on the line.

Agreed, and that was probably more opinion than fact. I do believe it will be easier to naturally foster a rivalry between VCU and other mid-Atlantic BE programs than others. The fact that VCU will still employ "havoc" there will be a lot of fans upset with the Rams "getting away" with" fouling" on half of their defensive possessions. Our fanbase will travel and either be respected for that, or will annoy the heck out of the other school. Some fans will complain at VCUs ability to recruit some players that wouldn't be able to get into other conference schools. I think it'll be easier to foster that sort of rivalry between VCU and Georgetown, or Nova.

I'm not saying that GT would view us as a rival right away (their basketball accolade far exceed ours) but a few competitive games where the Verizon Center is mostly packed with annoying VCU fans, and the return is easily sold out should generate something.

My brother and roommate were on CU's football team and staff. When Nebraska came to play Thanksgiving weekend, I'd visit. A couple of Nebraskas players decided to flick off CUs student section (where I was sitting). That's a real rivalry, and a shame it hasn't been played in a while. The B1G's manufacture of rivalries is sad, along with their "Legends and Leaders" division concept.

[R Jay]

The reasons SLU will stay down for quite a while is simple....Jim Crews. Go read the A10 board and see what SLU fans think of their HC. I have no clue how long Crews will be around but unfortunately he bought himself time with Majerus' recruits. Dayton hasn't been close to having a team as bad as SLU was last year in the last 15 years. I don't see vast improvement for SLU in the next 3-4 years either.

They had a young team. 6 of their 7 main rotation guys were sophomores or freshmen. They should be better because of more experience alone. Maybe not top half of the A-10, but certainly not last.
Again, this is what makes me laugh. You Dayton fans are afraid of them getting in before you guys so you try your hardest to shoot them down.

[Flyer75]

Some UD fans are here, and only here posting ACTUAL FACTS, because posters like you keep making up crap about Dayton that isn't true and then calling UD fans trolls for actually posting TRUE FACTS.

You want facts? 1990-2000. No NCAA Tournament appearances. 6 losing seasons.

Now wait a minute, I thought this was supposed to be what have you done for me lately? Not 25 years ago. If you want to go back to 1990, why not 1980? 1970? 1967? Why not 2000-2015? Goal posts!!!

[Flyer75]

The reasons SLU will stay down for quite a while is simple....Jim Crews. Go read the A10 board and see what SLU fans think of their HC. I have no clue how long Crews will be around but unfortunately he bought himself time with Majerus' recruits. Dayton hasn't been close to having a team as bad as SLU was last year in the last 15 years. I don't see vast improvement for SLU in the next 3-4 years either.

They had a young team. 6 of their 7 main rotation guys were sophomores or freshmen. They should be better because of more experience alone. Maybe not top half of the A-10, but certainly not last.
Again, this is what makes me laugh. You Dayton fans are afraid of them getting in before you guys so you try your hardest to shoot them down.

Why don't you address your misquote first Jay? Go ahead, I'm waiting.

I'm not afraid of SLU getting in before Dayton. Dayton seems to be fine for now in the A10 and will continue to be. Why, because we haven't been as bad as you were hoping we were. We've been fine. IF SLU gets in before Dayton, good for them. It will have no bearing on whether Dayton continues to make NCAA's out of the A10 or not.

[R Jay]

They're not a slam dunk candidate because they're public, but they'd instantly be the hated team in conference (being public).

I agree with all of your analysis of VCU except this point. I don't believe there is this "public vs. private" battle when it comes to students or fans. The only place that matters is in the board rooms where the presidents discuss expansion and on message boards where we discuss what we believe the Presidents are discussing. Thus, I don't think their addition would make them the most hated or create rivalries instantly.
I'd argue that rivalries are created over time. An example I use is when Nebraska joined the Big Ten. The conference and Iowa and Nebraska tried to create a rivalry between the two overnight, but there were no grounds for it at first. Over time that's changed, but I still wouldn't call Nebraska-Iowa a real rivalry like Nebraska-Colorado, Nebraska-Missouri, and certainly Nebraska-Oklahoma.
Back to the Big East, I don't think there are any inter-conference rivalries yet besides Seton Hall-St. John's and they certainly didn't come to hate each other overnight. For so long the C7 was an afterthought in the conference because many were populating the cellar and the important rivalries which nothing else could be compared were Georgetown-Syracuse, Syracuse-UCONN, Marquette-Louisville, and to a lesser extent Villanova-Syracuse. The unbalanced scheduling didn't help matters, either. That doesn't mean to say that there isn't dislike between the current 10 schools, but that besides SHU-SJU, there isn't anything I would define as a rivalry.
All that said, I think rivalries will develop as the years go on and we play more games with a lot on the line.

Agreed, and that was probably more opinion than fact. I do believe it will be easier to naturally foster a rivalry between VCU and other mid-Atlantic BE programs than others. The fact that VCU will still employ "havoc" there will be a lot of fans upset with the Rams "getting away" with" fouling" on half of their defensive possessions. Our fanbase will travel and either be respected for that, or will annoy the heck out of the other school. Some fans will complain at VCUs ability to recruit some players that wouldn't be able to get into other conference schools. I think it'll be easier to foster that sort of rivalry between VCU and Georgetown, or Nova.

I'm not saying that GT would view us as a rival right away (their basketball accolade far exceed ours) but a few competitive games where the Verizon Center is mostly packed with annoying VCU fans, and the return is easily sold out should generate something.

My brother and roommate were on CU's football team and staff. When Nebraska came to play Thanksgiving weekend, I'd visit. A couple of Nebraskas players decided to flick off CUs student section (where I was sitting). That's a real rivalry, and a shame it hasn't been played in a while. The B1G's manufacture of rivalries is sad, along with their "Legends and Leaders" division concept.

Yeah, we should expect rivalries with the mid-Atlantic teams to develop first. Region is extremely important in developing rivalries, even though it's not as important as 100, 50, or even 20 years ago.
I'm not sure Georgetown fans will ever be willing to call VCU or any of the former A-10/MVC teams rivals, though.
Colorado-Nebraska was incredibly nasty as was Missouri-Nebraska. Oklahoma-Nebraska was more mild and built on respect than the other two, but was still a rivalry.
I remember a NU-CU game years ago where a whole CU stadium section was removed for throwing trash on the field.

[R Jay]

The reasons SLU will stay down for quite a while is simple....Jim Crews. Go read the A10 board and see what SLU fans think of their HC. I have no clue how long Crews will be around but unfortunately he bought himself time with Majerus' recruits. Dayton hasn't been close to having a team as bad as SLU was last year in the last 15 years. I don't see vast improvement for SLU in the next 3-4 years either.

They had a young team. 6 of their 7 main rotation guys were sophomores or freshmen. They should be better because of more experience alone. Maybe not top half of the A-10, but certainly not last.
Again, this is what makes me laugh. You Dayton fans are afraid of them getting in before you guys so you try your hardest to shoot them down.

Why don't you address your misquote first Jay? Go ahead, I'm waiting.

I'm not afraid of SLU getting in before Dayton. Dayton seems to be fine for now in the A10 and will continue to be. Why, because we haven't been as bad as you were hoping we were. We've been fine. IF SLU gets in before Dayton, good for them. It will have no bearing on whether Dayton continues to make NCAA's out of the A10 or not.

I guess I was wrong, they sucked in the Midwestern, Great Midwest, and the A-10 from 1990-2000. But they got better. SLU will get better too and won't take 10 years to get back to the NCAA tournament. That's all I've been trying to say.
Now to your misquote. I said it was necessary to look at more than "what have you done for me lately" but the entire program.
And lastly you're still posting on the Big East expansion board because you don't care about being added?

[augkash]

The reasons SLU will stay down for quite a while is simple....Jim Crews. Go read the A10 board and see what SLU fans think of their HC. I have no clue how long Crews will be around but unfortunately he bought himself time with Majerus' recruits. Dayton hasn't been close to having a team as bad as SLU was last year in the last 15 years. I don't see vast improvement for SLU in the next 3-4 years either.

They had a young team. 6 of their 7 main rotation guys were sophomores or freshmen. They should be better because of more experience alone. Maybe not top half of the A-10, but certainly not last.
Again, this is what makes me laugh. You Dayton fans are afraid of them getting in before you guys so you try your hardest to shoot them down.

Dayton is a young team and won 27 games with 6 guys 1sr 1jr 3 soph and 1 freshmen. Dayton only going to get better. The team to watch out for in the A10 is Richmond they have a really good young team

[paulxu]

I know you're also a richmond fan (but mostly X). VCU will not start a football program for the foreseeable Future.

This is very true. X first, Richmond in the A10.
So on a personal level, I'd love to see Richmond be in the BE if there is any expansion. If not, I'll root for them in the A10.

On a purely basketball level, looking at the formation of the BE in 2013, I would have thought VCU and Wichita State would have been no brainers. Marshall and Smart at the helms, only a few years from FF's, avid fan bases, new markets. The fact that they weren't included makes me think the institutional level concern is stronger than we think. Certainly the money was there for 12 teams.

As someone noted, the voting has changed. 3 new votes plus 2 new presidents. Who knows what's critical today...if anything. They may be happy with 10, think 6 is a reasonable NCAA pie to try and split each year, and are just focused on improving the brand.

The really big dollars are in football. That's not going to change. I don't think Conn is going anywhere while the chance of improving their football money is possible. I'm still surprised that VCU with its resources didn't try to get into football. Maybe it is too late now. But it's got as much going for it as Charlotte for example.

[_lh]

Dunno how to multi quote so....


_lh - who do you think #11 is if not dayton or VCu?

MUboxer - every fan base has an idiot poster or two but they don't make up the whole fan base. Even us dayton fans cant stand a few posters.

Army vet - i dont know who you follow but considering any teams for expansion a mid major is same as calling teams already in BE a mid major. These teams all have very similar profiles. These arnt blue bloods but not mid major

If and it is of course a huge if UCONN came back to the BE, there is no reason to add a 12th team if it is from a pool of UD/SLU/Richond/VCU.

If any of those 4 were so attractive to the BE, they could have been added already.

I hope the BE stays at 10 and only expands for a great addition(s).