Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[Hoopfan]

My question is if BE expands why stop at 12? Say UConn wants to join...gives you an east coast team. Could stay with a second east coast or even it out by adding a Midwest school. Why not just expand by bringing in UConn and VCU from east coast and Dayton and WSU from Midwest. If basketball is the end all be all and publics are no longer out of the equation it would def make BE a fixture in The power conference world.

[R Jay]

They're not a slam dunk candidate because they're public, but they'd instantly be the hated team in conference (being public).

I agree with all of your analysis of VCU except this point. I don't believe there is this "public vs. private" battle when it comes to students or fans. The only place that matters is in the board rooms where the presidents discuss expansion and on message boards where we discuss what we believe the Presidents are discussing. Thus, I don't think their addition would make them the most hated or create rivalries instantly.
I'd argue that rivalries are created over time. An example I use is when Nebraska joined the Big Ten. The conference and Iowa and Nebraska tried to create a rivalry between the two overnight, but there were no grounds for it at first. Over time that's changed, but I still wouldn't call Nebraska-Iowa a real rivalry like Nebraska-Colorado, Nebraska-Missouri, and certainly Nebraska-Oklahoma.
Back to the Big East, I don't think there are any inter-conference rivalries yet besides Seton Hall-St. John's and they certainly didn't come to hate each other overnight. For so long the C7 was an afterthought in the conference because many were populating the cellar and the important rivalries which nothing else could be compared were Georgetown-Syracuse, Syracuse-UCONN, Marquette-Louisville, and to a lesser extent Villanova-Syracuse. The unbalanced scheduling didn't help matters, either. That doesn't mean to say that there isn't dislike between the current 10 schools, but that besides SHU-SJU, there isn't anything I would define as a rivalry.
All that said, I think rivalries will develop as the years go on and we play more games with a lot on the line.

[R Jay]

2 years, and 54 pages in this thread, and not a whole lot has changed from this article about possible candidates:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basket ... -henderson

I dunno. SLU has since absolutely gone into the tank. And Dayton has 2 NCAA appearances since then, including an elite 8 run. 2 huge changes. Just do not think the Big East can add a SLU until SLU gets back to being at least competitive.

Yes, alot has changed since that article two years ago, particularly the direction the programs are headed in. Would the BE rather have a top 25 type program with alot of NCAA tourney success or a program that is unlikely to get that type of success for several years?

I find it amusing that Dayton fans feel the need to put down SLU (over one bad, rebuilding season, nonetheless). You must be really afraid that they'll be taken ahead of you and that you'll be left out in the cold again.
Now that I think about it, it's actually really, really sad.

[ta111]

I find it amusing that Dayton fans feel the need to put down SLU (over one bad, rebuilding season, nonetheless). You must be really afraid that they'll be taken ahead of you and that you'll be left out in the cold again.
Now that I think about it, it's actually really, really sad.

It's called reality and facts. The facts are what they are and it is sad if some can't see it. SLU is a long way from where they were 2 years ago. Quite frankly, I don't care about getting in the BE as much as I care that the A10 bottom feeders improve. Dayton will most likely be a tourney team for the foreseeable future with or without the BE.

[R Jay]

I find it amusing that Dayton fans feel the need to put down SLU (over one bad, rebuilding season, nonetheless). You must be really afraid that they'll be taken ahead of you and that you'll be left out in the cold again.
Now that I think about it, it's actually really, really sad.

It's called reality and facts. The facts are what they are and it is sad if some can't see it. SLU is a long way from where they were 2 years ago. Quite frankly, I don't care about getting in the BE as much as I care that the A10 bottom feeders improve. Dayton will most likely be a tourney team for the foreseeable future with or without the BE.

One, you should learn how to quote. Two, Dayton managed to improve after being a cellar dweller for years on end in the A-10. If you're only examining recent success and not what the program has done in the long term or what the program brings to the conference as a whole outside of sports, you're being extremely short-sighted and not looking at the whole picture.
Regardless, there's no reason to believe that SLU will stay down for long. They had a very young team and their most talented players were freshmen and 6 of their top 7 in their end of season rotation were freshmen or sophomores. But facts aren't you and your Dayton cohorts strong suit.
Also, if you don't care about getting into the Big East why are you here talking about Big East expansion?

[xsteve1]

This thread is 53 pages long so please excuse this question but does the BE have to expand past the 10 current teams? What would make the BE have to expand?

If they want to expand, they need to be very careful on who they select. UD/SLU/Richmond/VCU are bland and offer very little to the league that is doesn't already have.

I can see shooting for the stars in expansion by trying to get UCONN back in if UCONN finds a place for their crappy football team. I also don't see why if UCONN was added that the BE would have to add a 12th team, just to get to 12 teams. The B10 played with 11 teams for years.

As far as UD goes, in a vacuum they would have been a decent add to the conference before XU and Butler were selected. Now they make no sense at all. Sorry.

Agree with this. UD has gotten better under Archie but still outside of a sort of lucky run (Craft missing a chippy and Kansas getting beat) in the NCAA in '14 they still have yet to win an A10 title. Archie won't be there more than another year maybe two then UD probably regresses to previous years.
10 is great for the foreseeable future unless UConn changes their minds. Hell when a league gets 6 of 10 expansion should be pretty far down the ladder of concerns.

[RDriesenUD]

I find it amusing that Dayton fans feel the need to put down SLU (over one bad, rebuilding season, nonetheless). You must be really afraid that they'll be taken ahead of you and that you'll be left out in the cold again.
Now that I think about it, it's actually really, really sad.

It's called reality and facts. The facts are what they are and it is sad if some can't see it. SLU is a long way from where they were 2 years ago. Quite frankly, I don't care about getting in the BE as much as I care that the A10 bottom feeders improve. Dayton will most likely be a tourney team for the foreseeable future with or without the BE.

One, you should learn how to quote. Two, Dayton managed to improve after being a cellar dweller for years on end in the A-10. If you're only examining recent success and not what the program has done in the long term or what the program brings to the conference as a whole outside of sports, you're being extremely short-sighted and not looking at the whole picture.
Regardless, there's no reason to believe that SLU will stay down for long. They had a very young team and their most talented players were freshmen and 6 of their top 7 in their end of season rotation were freshmen or sophomores. But facts aren't you and your Dayton cohorts strong suit.
Also, if you don't care about getting into the Big East why are you here talking about Big East expansion?

Since you are so into facts and them being your strong suit, can you post the facts that show Dayton was a "cellar dweller for years on end in the A10"?

[RDriesenUD]

I find it amusing that Dayton fans feel the need to put down SLU (over one bad, rebuilding season, nonetheless). You must be really afraid that they'll be taken ahead of you and that you'll be left out in the cold again.
Now that I think about it, it's actually really, really sad.

It's called reality and facts. The facts are what they are and it is sad if some can't see it. SLU is a long way from where they were 2 years ago. Quite frankly, I don't care about getting in the BE as much as I care that the A10 bottom feeders improve. Dayton will most likely be a tourney team for the foreseeable future with or without the BE.

One, you should learn how to quote. Two, Dayton managed to improve after being a cellar dweller for years on end in the A-10. If you're only examining recent success and not what the program has done in the long term or what the program brings to the conference as a whole outside of sports, you're being extremely short-sighted and not looking at the whole picture.
Regardless, there's no reason to believe that SLU will stay down for long. They had a very young team and their most talented players were freshmen and 6 of their top 7 in their end of season rotation were freshmen or sophomores. But facts aren't you and your Dayton cohorts strong suit.
Also, if you don't care about getting into the Big East why are you here talking about Big East expansion?

Some UD fans are here, and only here posting ACTUAL FACTS, because posters like you keep making up crap about Dayton that isn't true and then calling UD fans trolls for actually posting TRUE FACTS.

[stever20]

I find it amusing that Dayton fans feel the need to put down SLU (over one bad, rebuilding season, nonetheless). You must be really afraid that they'll be taken ahead of you and that you'll be left out in the cold again.
Now that I think about it, it's actually really, really sad.

It's called reality and facts. The facts are what they are and it is sad if some can't see it. SLU is a long way from where they were 2 years ago. Quite frankly, I don't care about getting in the BE as much as I care that the A10 bottom feeders improve. Dayton will most likely be a tourney team for the foreseeable future with or without the BE.

One, you should learn how to quote. Two, Dayton managed to improve after being a cellar dweller for years on end in the A-10. If you're only examining recent success and not what the program has done in the long term or what the program brings to the conference as a whole outside of sports, you're being extremely short-sighted and not looking at the whole picture.
Regardless, there's no reason to believe that SLU will stay down for long. They had a very young team and their most talented players were freshmen and 6 of their top 7 in their end of season rotation were freshmen or sophomores. But facts aren't you and your Dayton cohorts strong suit.
Also, if you don't care about getting into the Big East why are you here talking about Big East expansion?

With the coach that SLU has, there's no reason to believe that SLU will get back to where they were. Right now if UConn came to Val tomorrow and said we want in, I just don't see how SLU would be all that viable as a #12 right this second. And I think the league would pretty much guaranteed look for a 12th school. It's that much of an advantage to have 12 vs 11.

And long term- SLU compared to Dayton just isn't good for SLU. SLU has 9 appearances in the NCAA tourney and 6 wins ALL TIME. Dayton has 16 appearances and 19 wins.

So short term, advantage Dayton. Long term, advantage Dayton.

SLU caught a real bad break with what happened with Majerus. I just don't see the Big East taking a chance on them until they can get back to being competitive. That's not taking a shot at SLU. It's reality. This would be all about timing. If it happens tomorrow, I think Dayton is by far the odds on favorite. But if it's another 2-3 years from now, and SLU has gotten back into at least NIT range, they have a great shot(unless UConn is 11, and VCU has maintained or gotten even better in the NCAA w/o Shaka). I think the best way I could phrase it- it's SLU's position to lose. If the expansion happened right this second- that's exactly what would have happened. If they can show by the time that the Big East expands they're back to being competitive- they're in almost certainly.

And I'm not a Dayton fan- I just know how to look at something unemotionally.

[Flyer75]

I find it amusing that Dayton fans feel the need to put down SLU (over one bad, rebuilding season, nonetheless). You must be really afraid that they'll be taken ahead of you and that you'll be left out in the cold again.
Now that I think about it, it's actually really, really sad.

It's called reality and facts. The facts are what they are and it is sad if some can't see it. SLU is a long way from where they were 2 years ago. Quite frankly, I don't care about getting in the BE as much as I care that the A10 bottom feeders improve. Dayton will most likely be a tourney team for the foreseeable future with or without the BE.

One, you should learn how to quote. Two, Dayton managed to improve after being a cellar dweller for years on end in the A-10. If you're only examining recent success and not what the program has done in the long term or what the program brings to the conference as a whole outside of sports, you're being extremely short-sighted and not looking at the whole picture.
Regardless, there's no reason to believe that SLU will stay down for long. They had a very young team and their most talented players were freshmen and 6 of their top 7 in their end of season rotation were freshmen or sophomores. But facts aren't you and your Dayton cohorts strong suit.
Also, if you don't care about getting into the Big East why are you here talking about Big East expansion?

This is what I take issue with mainly on this board. If you say something enough, people will believe it. Well prove it. I'll prove the opposite for you:

01-02: 2nd Place in the West Division
02-03: 2nd Place in the West Division (14-2 record in conference)
03-04: 1st Place in the West Division
04-05: 2nd Place in the West Division
05-06: 11th Place (out of 14)
06-07: 7th Place
07-08: 8th Place
08-09: 2nd Place
09-10: 7th Place
10-11: 8th Place
11-12: 7th Place
12-13: 11th Place
13-14: 5th Place
14-15: 2nd Place


I'm not posting this to say whether Dayton should or should not be in the BE, I'm just putting it out there to refute the endless posts on Dayton being a "cellar dweller years on end in the A10". Bull crap.

The reasons SLU will stay down for quite a while is simple....Jim Crews. Go read the A10 board and see what SLU fans think of their HC. I have no clue how long Crews will be around but unfortunately he bought himself time with Majerus' recruits. Dayton hasn't been close to having a team as bad as SLU was last year in the last 15 years. I don't see vast improvement for SLU in the next 3-4 years either.