Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[jaxalum]

If all UD posters were of sheg's quality, I'd be rooting for the inclusion of the Flyers as one of our next two members (despite the few drawbacks I see in that idea).

Unfortunately, Muddy and some of his ilk, are chomping at the chance to ruin this Board also!

Agreed with the above and Nick and Dashs' posts. While I feel that there are better options than Dayton, Shegs post was clear, concise, and approached the discussion from both sides. Or maybe this could be some new UD Jedi mind trick we have never seen.

I'm all for good discussion, as Dash said though, it became VERY toxic over the years. Carry on Sheg.

[JohnThompson'sTowel]

Last thing we need as a conference is to take Dayton before everything settles with FB. Honestly, Dayton does nothing for me as a Hoyas fan. Xavier is already here (plus they have gotten the upper hand on Hoyas lately) and have covered that region nicely. Miller is not there long term. I want a school that knows their coach will be there long term.
Not going to lie, I had no faith in Butler recovering the way they did. Props to them after all the shit that went down with that program. That is not the norm and I don't want Dayton turning into DePaul and killing the Hoyas RPI.

Then again it really doesn't matter long term. Once the P5 breakaway from the NCAA the Big East as we know it will be done. Basketball will be a premium product and those conferences will backfill with some of the BE programs (SJU, Nova, Hoyas to ACC for example).

[augkash]

Tell me How did it get so toxic? The players are all friends and play in summer league against each other there has never been an on court problem. I know a FEW students heckled the wife but I could see that happening to millers wife if Dayton was at Xavier. He'll most of you guys on here don't like your coach anyways. Just be honest the only reason why Xavier fans don't want Dayton in the big east bc they can toss the I'm in big east and your not into fans faces. I'm not here to bash Xavier or any of the posters. I think Dayton vs Xavier would be huge for the big east

[R Jay]

Then again it really doesn't matter long term. Once the P5 breakaway from the NCAA the Big East as we know it will be done. Basketball will be a premium product and those conferences will backfill with some of the BE programs (SJU, Nova, Hoyas to ACC for example).

LOL Wat?
Football 5 isn't going to take non-football schools. And right now, Nova and Georgetown have no interest in bringing football up to FBS level.

[myopicraiderfan]

Then again it really doesn't matter long term. Once the P5 breakaway from the NCAA the Big East as we know it will be done. Basketball will be a premium product and those conferences will backfill with some of the BE programs (SJU, Nova, Hoyas to ACC for example).

I don't think you'll see a full on breakaway. I think you will see a new division introduced. The new division will be the P5 plus any schools that can afford to pay FCoA to their athletes. I can see tremendous change taking place once more costs are introduced because of opening the FCoA pandora's box. ESPN a couple years back had an article on Tulsa, which was losing 10 million dollars per year on football. I don't see how some schools at the AAC, MWC, or lower levels can sustain those type of losses without a significant TV contract. I love football, especially college football, but the future doesn't look bright for the sport.

[Butlerfan28]

I think that "Brand" should be top priority if any team is ever added. We are trying to build a brand that is respected nationwide. Had we not collapsed in the NCAA, we would've been much closer to that goal. But it was still a net positive. Most schools seem to be a positive trajectory with maybe Creighton being the only question mark. B12 had a bad NCAA tourney but no-one is going to realistically question their pedigree. We need to aim for that same stature.

You can't build a brand without a clear and credible brand image you are trying to communicate. That requirement is a fundamental of brand building. So the first question is what is your brand image and the second is what is are the facts credible to support that brand.

Currently the brand is a mix of private, Catholic, highly rated colleges and schools that excel in basketball. Given our performance in the tournament and our refusal to add public schools were are trending towards the former and not the later.

We sent 6 teams with an average seed of 5. I think that would qualify as "Excelling". We laid an egg in the tourney. So did the B12, it won't happen every year.

Except for the schools who make up the Big East currently it has happened every year in the 2000's. Our collection of schools since 2000 have averaged 1.3 teams a year reaching the sweet sixteen. P5 conferences average at least 2 teams with a high of three. We need to hit that same mark and have not the first two years of the current configuration. Of our 10 teams 4 have failed to make the sweet 16 this century and 1 has made it only once. That representation is okay in a 12 team conference where you have 7-8 other schools representing but it is a problem in a 10 team conference unless you have a Kansas guarenteed to make it almost every year.

[Butlerfan28]

3 short points:

On "brand" - the BE has a brand. We are a basketball 1st conference (harkening back to the origins of the league).

As for individual school "brands" - they all have various "spins", but the importance of basketball should not be in question.
There are 10-15 private or catholic universities which have the necessary profile to give consideration to, should the league ever decide to expand - some are majors, some are mid-majors.
Adding public school(s) would open up conference records, databases, and internal communications to public viewing and scrutiny. Some folk might not like that option.

As for "little Creighton" and our potential trajectory - thanks for the s/o but don't worry about us, we'll be fine. The Missouri River is muddy, but we have water treatment facilities now. Can even buy bottled water in grocery stores. Who'd a thought it? What's next - wireless internet? There's more at Creighton than meets the eye.

The origin of the league was a basketball first league regardless of institutional profile. It had a mix of public and private institutions that cared about and excelled in basketball. We currently are an institutional fit first, basketball second conference as shown by the preference of SLU over Wichita State.

To be clear "Little Creighton" was DudeAnon not me.

[Xudash]

Tell me How did it get so toxic? The players are all friends and play in summer league against each other there has never been an on court problem. I know a FEW students heckled the wife but I could see that happening to millers wife if Dayton was at Xavier. He'll most of you guys on here don't like your coach anyways. Just be honest the only reason why Xavier fans don't want Dayton in the big east bc they can toss the I'm in big east and your not into fans faces. I'm not here to bash Xavier or any of the posters. I think Dayton vs Xavier would be huge for the big east

You should consider reading and not posting. Actually, you should just run back to whichever UD board you hangout on while trashing the Big East with the rest of your friends, during those moments when you don't see UD getting an invite.

Don't cap the "FEW." That was an absolute disgrace. Christi Mack, a HOF player for UD's women's team, was in tears over that incident. That truly was UD at its worst, as far as its fan base is concerned. You don't get to downplay that, and you don't get to attempt deflection by stating that the same thing would have happened had Xavier fans been involved. You're in our rearview mirror, not the other way around.

You're otherwise beyond stupid to think that "most of us guys" don't like our coach. Three S16's in the first 6 years by any coach anywhere is a very respectable track record. Chris Mack is an X alumnus. He's a Cincinnati guy. His recruiting is off the charts. And he was able to pull together this team on the way to a S16 this year.

This Xavier / UD thing got to the point where the UD Blackburn site began referring to Xavier as UD's OVERLORD. Your fanbase has foamed at the mouth for years about being Xavier's "Little Brother." Some of you guys come over here and yap about UD's program without even thinking about what some of the C7 fans around here, in particular, must think in terms of how small you act.

Your post is bashing. Don't deflect UD fan behavior on the Xavier fan base. Taking shots at our coach isn't going to get you very far as well.

It's a shame, in a way. While it may be true that every fan base has its different elements, the UD fan base has a truly large block of delusional idiots running around within it. Keep posting away if you feel the need. No one will stop you from that anyway, unless you truly do step over the line. You're making great strides in preparing Big East fans for UD fandom should UD make it into the Big East Conference.

As far as that is concerned, I wouldn't wait up for that anytime soon. Our friend from St. Bonaventure makes a compelling case about adding a certain two teams to game the NCAA Unit thing. The President's are looking at it more strategically. Competition is a good thing. Raise the bar. IF expansion must be pursued in the future, go big, if possible, and make all conference participants work that much harder.

[Gopher+RamFan]

I think Dayton vs Xavier would be huge for the big east

I'm not a Big East fan (I watched maybe 10-15 conference games this year). Before VCU was in the A10, I'd turned into Xavier/Cincinnati. I'd also turn into GT/Cuse, UCONN/Syracuse, SJU/Cuse, UCONN/GT, WVU/UCONN. What was great about most of those, was the packed crowds. Alumni didn't like each other, private v. State universities added to the heat. The current BE doesn't have that dynamic, all the schools are similar. Take everyone on here, everyone's polite to each other. It's great to be polite, and like your conference mates - but rivalries add so much to the sport and adds viewership. I have no connection to Duke/UNC but I'll watch because of the hatred, proximity and dynamic of different institutions.

I get that the Big East is only in its 2nd year, but 7 members came from the previous conference (or let's say the second iteration of the BE). I watch a decent amount of FS1 (comparatively) and there's no mention of rivalries. I'm on here and it doesn't seem like any program dislikes each other. Maybe I've missed something, but to steal Rothstein's vocab, there's no palpable buzz in conference matchups for an outsider. Is Georgetown/Nova a good game? Probably, but I'm not staying up to watch a 9 pm tip at a half filled Verizon Center.

I know this is an unpopular view, and everyone here probably has a similar background (private/religious university alumni or fan, who may associate with the same). Just as an outsider, it seems the games are a bit bland from a hype perspective. I want to see packed houses, hated rivals, good games - I don't care which conference.

That's why I'd like to see Dayton/X in the Big East. If you don't have someone to root for in that one, you'll soon root for X once the Flyer faithful start posting reasons why they're a Final Four team in the pre-season. I'd like to see a public school or two (even if it's not VCU, so WSU or UCONN). I want Creighton fans to hate on the academics of the Shockers, and Hoya fans to bring out the "UCONNVicts". As an outsider, I don't have anyone to root for in the Big East, so I need someone to hate. Adding (or creating over the next couple years, from teams inside the conference) rivalries creates a reason for people unaffiliated to the conference to tune in.

[augkash]

The only other site I belong to is yappi to talk high school football and pocket fives for poker. Like I said before I have no problem with u xudash