Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[Bill Marsh]

Some very well thought out posts the last couple of pages. Is it just me, or would the additions we are talking about, besides a Gonzaga/ND/Uconn, be depressingly underwhelming from a perception standpoint? Don't get me wrong, some very solid points have been presented in support of these schools candidacies. Besides the aforementioned schools, which would seem to be long shots presently, the schools being considered, in my opinion, would be baffling and confounding to the average basketball fan. There's no "wow" factor, no big " splash" , no national waves being made with these candidates. Maybe it's me wanting the dangerous, smoking hot girl vs the girl that is "big boned" but with a great personality.

Yes.

[Bill Marsh]

https://twitter.com/SammyAlbano/status/588138169251561472

Says UConn is seeking an audience with the Big East, possibly about membership. Not sure how legit.

If this turns out to be legit (BIG IF), then who do we bring along with? Dayton? VCU (would like to see how coaching change works out first, they've lost all their recruits for this season and had 1 transfer out already)? SLU?

A lot of rumors are flying around bout UConn right now. My favorite is that an invite to the B1G is imminent.

As for the twittisphere, duck! Or you might get hit by flying debris.

[Bill Marsh]

WARNING OPINION POST TO FOLLOW


WHY NOT...?
Gonzaga: Nothing has changed since the last round of expansion. Gonzaga had the reputation, success, visibility, and best resume of any of the original candidates. They were not added because it is too far to Spokane, they don't have a large arena, their fans won't travel to MSG, and we won't get much of a recruiting boost by playing in Washington.

Marquette, I have heeded your caveat that you are posting your opinion. Having noted that, I'll post mine with regard to Gonzaga in reply.

1. No one who was not involved in the discussions back in 2012 knows why Gonzaga or anyone else was not taken at that time. No one knows why they stopped at 10 but leaked that they were seriously considering expanding to 12 within a few years.

2. Nothing has changed? Actually circumstances have changed. Only 5 of the 7 decision makers at the time remain in their positions. There are 5 new decision makers at the table, so the dynamic can be completely different. Furthermore, ratings need a boost, so there may be a different motivation to overcome obstacles like geography.

3. Gonzaga has a 6000 seat on campus arena which is sold out for every game and for which there is a waiting list of 1000 for tickets. In addition they have access to Spokane's Veteran's Memorial Coliseum, which seats 12,600 where they have played games in the past. I don't see any difference between their situation and schools like St. John's or Villanova who split their games between a smaller on-campus arena and a larger downtown arena, which is what Gonzaga likely would do if they were a member of the Big East,

4. How do you know that their fans won't travel to MSG? NYC is the #1 tourist destination in the country. That's the whole point of playing a tournament there. Fans come for more than just the basketball games. Gonzaga obviously has a dedicated following and they might well travel to the tournament. If you have more information about how well their fan base travels, please post it. The same thing could have been speculated about Creighton's fan base, but they ere selected anyway. Such speculation would have been wrong about Creighton fans and may well be wrong about Gonzaga's as well.

5. The Big East needs a recruiting base? News to me. With the conference's already existing recruiting territories, the Big
East is in as good shape as anyone in the country. Regardless, recruiting is national these days. Despite being in NYC, I don't think that St. John's had a single NYC player who saw significant minutes this year. Maybe one? A recruiting base is anon-issue.

Fair criticism.

(1) Correct.

(2) Correct. However, the goals of the conference have likely not changed. Although Marquette's new president is devoutly catholic and would likely follow in the footsteps of his predecessors. I don't know much about the others.

(3) How many of those 7,000 fans are coming to MSG? It would take more than half to make it worthwhile. Also, 6,000 fans brings down our average attendance. A conference that want to be considered major isn't going to be too excited about this. Maybe they play some games at the larger arena, but that's speculative and unlikely considering how much they've invested in the arena.

(4) Creighton draws 17,000+ per game. That's triple what Gonzaga does. No comparison. The WCC final between Gonzaga and BYU in Vegas did sell out the arena and draw 8,500, but so did Pepperdine v. San Diego. My guess is that Vegas shows up for entertainment events and most of those were not fans flying in from Spokane. Unfortunately there's no way to prove that. I could try to hunt down the preseason tournament numbers, but I'm not sure what that would prove either. Most WCC gyms are so small that there's no way to tell what kind of attendance bump they get from the visitor. There's also the fact that most Gonzaga alumni stay on the west coast.

(5) Recruits who want to get away from home but still want their parents to be able to come to a game care about recruiting areas. There is also the fact that our fellow schools are allowed to guest host recruits for us in their arena. We did this for DePaul this season. National or not, recruiting will always be a major concern. We may be doing fine now, but you can always do better. The reason the Big East cares about large cities is the recruiting. We are not selling the BE tv network.

Once again, opinion. Mine is no more valid than yours.

Different perspective here, Marquette. No offense intended.

3. I think it's highly likely that Gonzaga moves it's Big East games to the coliseum if it were in the Big East. In fact, that could be made a condition of membership. It's a miracle that Gonzaga is selling out their ifor WCC competition. McCarthey Center suits their current needs, but they would certainly make changes for big time competition.

4. The comparison with Gonzaga had to do with distance. Point is that just because a school is far away doesn't mean that they won't show up for the tournament. OTOH, so me schools that are close by don't have a great showing.

5. You can't generalize about recruits. There is a long list of recruits who play at schools who will never play road games near their home town. D'Angelo Harrison at St. John's is from Texas. Daniel Hamilton at UConn is from LA. Ladonte Henton at PC is from Michigan. The list goes on and on.

I don't get your last point: "we are not selling the BE TV network." I'll just say that Gonzaga would do far more to increase the conference's TV appeal than St Louis would regardless of the difference in market size.

[jaxalum]

Some very well thought out posts the last couple of pages. Is it just me, or would the additions we are talking about, besides a Gonzaga/ND/Uconn, be depressingly underwhelming from a perception standpoint? Don't get me wrong, some very solid points have been presented in support of these schools candidacies. Besides the aforementioned schools, which would seem to be long shots presently, the schools being considered, in my opinion, would be baffling and confounding to the average basketball fan. There's no "wow" factor, no big " splash" , no national waves being made with these candidates. Maybe it's me wanting the dangerous, smoking hot girl vs the girl that is "big boned" but with a great personality.

Yes.

Sure, the first thing people are going to think if the vaunted Big East adds a St Louis, Dayton, Richmond etc is that this already formidable conference is now a veritable basketball centric juggernaut (sarcasm dripping). Obviously it's not just me as this week and a half old thread is 46 pages long discussing the merits and drawbacks of the aforementioned group of schools.

[hoyahooligan]

https://twitter.com/SammyAlbano/status/588138169251561472

Says UConn is seeking an audience with the Big East, possibly about membership. Not sure how legit.

If this turns out to be legit (BIG IF), then who do we bring along with? Dayton? VCU (would like to see how coaching change works out first, they've lost all their recruits for this season and had 1 transfer out already)? SLU?

Why would we need to bring another team in we don't need to be an even number we could function with 11 teams.

[Hoyas]

https://twitter.com/SammyAlbano/status/588138169251561472

Says UConn is seeking an audience with the Big East, possibly about membership. Not sure how legit.

If this turns out to be legit (BIG IF), then who do we bring along with? Dayton? VCU (would like to see how coaching change works out first, they've lost all their recruits for this season and had 1 transfer out already)? SLU?

Why would we need to bring another team in we don't need to be an even number we could function with 11 teams.

2 big things with 11 vs 12-
1- with 12 everyone can play in a single day. With 11, someone can't play due to the odd number.
2- in the conference tournament 1st round, there would be the ability to have a 2nd session, which equals more money.

[hoyahooligan]

https://twitter.com/SammyAlbano/status/588138169251561472

Says UConn is seeking an audience with the Big East, possibly about membership. Not sure how legit.

If this turns out to be legit (BIG IF), then who do we bring along with? Dayton? VCU (would like to see how coaching change works out first, they've lost all their recruits for this season and had 1 transfer out already)? SLU?

Why would we need to bring another team in we don't need to be an even number we could function with 11 teams.

2 big things with 11 vs 12-
1- with 12 everyone can play in a single day. With 11, someone can't play due to the odd number.
2- in the conference tournament 1st round, there would be the ability to have a 2nd session, which equals more money.

Big 10 had 11 teams for a years didn't seem to hold them back. If we don't have a 12th team we would add anyway we shouldn't just add them for the sake of rounding out the numbers.

[Hoyas]

True- but I think given how viable Dayton is already- and if VCU can maintain where they are- they are good enough to where it wouldn't be adding just for the sake of adding.

[Bostonspider]

A nice early Bracket with 6 BE and 4 A10 schools...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2429831-way-too-early-projections-for-the-2016-ncaa-tournament-bracket/page/9

[Hoyas]

A nice early Bracket with 6 BE and 4 A10 schools...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2429831-way-too-early-projections-for-the-2016-ncaa-tournament-bracket/page/9

Another projection with only 8 conferences with more than 1 team in the tourney. MWC and WCC with only 1 team in(though they have a team in the 1st 5 out).

Creighton in the PIG.