The Villanova Football Problem...

[DeltaV]

As a retired 'minor sport' athlete at 'Nova, I entirely agree that he football team should be de-emphasized (at least in this Title IX ruled system). It is absurd the number of sports that Nova has robbed of support (Lax, Men's Soccer, Baseball, Men's Swimming & Diving, or outright cut like Wrestling) to feed the football beast that NO ONE cares about; they couldn't even give out tickets to games.

The only time a football game crossed the student body's consciousness was when Father Lazer ran over a UDel fan in the parking lot.

We all harbored no resentment to the Basketball team; we knew from where where the money came to run the athletic department. But the football team? They were the biggest money pit out there...and they weren't even in the Big East!

[Mullin Mania]

I've always been deathly afraid of Nova leaving. Must keep football low there.

[robinreed]

Nova,
As I recall a few years ago when nova applied to the BE as a full member (football) the school went through a long solicitation process raising money from donors and alumni to build modern practice and training facilities for an on campus sports complex. Reportedly several millions of dollars went to the school in order to permit it to join the BE as a division 1A football program. Admittedly my school (XU) was not part of the BE at the time and this was not a primary concern however I do recall reading about this on several web sites including BE and nova web sites. What happened to the money pledged and collected for the football upgrade? I know of course that the plan to upgrade was not accepted by several of the BE football schools however my memory was that much of that money was in fact collected by the school. Were these funds in fact used for football? If not what happened to the money?

I can not speak with expertise about division 1AA football schools such as nova however there are several northeastern schools which do draw in the 20K to 30K range for home games. Delaware is one FCS program near your own campus which often has attendance in that range. In your own hometown Temple which is division 1A in name only has about 22K in attendance. Football is the most popular and most viewed collegiate sport in the nation and it generates the most money although in fairness it should be pointed out it is also the most costly. Here in Ohio I follow OSU, UC and Miami regularly in football although I am assiduous in my support of the muskies in all other sports. You know your fan base at nova much better than I however NCAA stats from 2013 the most recent year they were released show that 6.3 million people attended FCS games and that the increase in attendance was about 230K per year over the past several years.

I am a fan of college hockey which is much superior to the far more brutal pro version and would like to see all BE schools have a solid hockey program. Even LAX is not totally horrible although personally I compare soccer to watching paint dry. Except that drying paint is far more interesting. However you and your fellow alumni best know what needs to be done at nova and I do not question your opinion however I beseech you to not dispose of the most popular sport in America simply because of current attendance problems. X to had a collegiate football program which was disbanded in the mid 1970's. There are many XU alumni who rue the day that event occurred and our success over the past 20 years in basketball whilst remarkable and admirable would be even greater had we a winning football team.

Good luck to all at Villanova and especially to your sports programs however do not make the mistake of doing what several other private universities did just to save in the short range. DO NOT BE PENNY WISE AND POUND FOOLISH.

[NovaBall]

Robinreed, like half a decade ago they got like a million or two dollars to "do a study" on the feasibility of upgrading villanova football to a respectable level. 5 years later, at $6.5 mill per season, that money has been spent dozens of times over.

And like delta said, you couldn't even give villanova football tickets away. It's not the $5 ticket price that is causing people to stay away. It is the fact that a glorified high school team is not worth anyone's time. They draw about 2k friends and family supporters per game, with some long time followers of the program. But basically the program gets less respect than the lady's field hockey team on campus.

Really jealous of how providence did a better job allocating their athletic department resources than what villanova has done the past decade. Nova has given the appropriate commitment to hoops, with the Davis center, retaining their coach, participating in high profile ooc events. But the football at Villanova is a real problem.

[NovaBall]

Regarding your other comments,

Temple draws worse than nova. Nobody goes to those games. They have to count donated tickets to charitable organizations that are never even printed up to count their attendance.

Boston College can get 30k to some of their games. I have never been to a rutgers game but I have been told they can hit 40k for an early season game but then dwindle closer to 15k once the losing begins. UConn had some novelty fans when they first started, but they don't draw fans to hartford on Saturdays anymore.

Football doesn't generate any money for any school in the northeast. Not one. Try to find one. They all run deficits. Rutgers cuse, bc, are all in the red. Temple and UConn are closer to dropping their programs than they are to turning a profit.



Regarding hockey, the big east will never be a hockey conference. Providence is never joining the big east, and if any of the east coast teams ever started a hockey program (unlikely as that is), they would be better off trying to join providence in hockey east than try to start a new big east conference. And for the Midwest schools they would be better off trying to join one of the Midwest conferences. Big east hockey is not realistic, nor should it be a goal.


If xavier had a football team, nobody would care. College football fans would opt for Ohio state on Saturdays and others would watch the bengals and browns. Only friends and family of the program would watch X play football.

[trephin]

One might debate the popularity or financial profits of VU football which is fine.

Please stop saying it's Division 2. FCS is not a form of Divison 2. There was D1AA and there was (and still is) D2.

The CAA is a powerhouse conference in FCS and, I believe, at one point was the home of 3 consecutive national champions including Nova. Whether it's popular at VU is an issue but FCS football is as prestigious in the CAA as it is anyhwere. And as you say "Villanova should be in the conference that gives it the best platform for success" and the historical competitiveness of the CAA likely provides VU football just that platform.

While there are some variations in academic reputations, Nova certainly has peers as you have mentioned. The Patriot is selective... whether that means "better" academically is certainly debatable. If one doesn't think FCS brings value to a university, then the conference is likely unimportant particularly in terms of CAA v PL. I doubt VU's academic reputation is hindered or helped by it's FCS affiliation.

Nova lacrosse to the best of my knowledge has never been fully funded so I don't think you can say "it's no longer funded"

What is the funding for lacrosse? I believe the each BE lacrosse school agreed to raise funding in a certain time frame. Although I'm unsure of the agreed commitment level, perhaps that time has not expired?

While it's reasonable to ask financial responsibility questions of a FCS program, I'd be curious if it can be proven that money is being taken from other sports and given to football?

[NovaBall]

FCS is division 2. And that's actually being generous because I'm reality it is division 3 behind the non football 5 conferences.

Please don't go calling it division 1, which implies highest level of its sport. Villanova football is not competing at the highest level. They may beat temple, uconn and rutgers with some regularity, but those schools suck.

[Nova69]

In the interest of complete disclosure, the original poster has been banned from the Nova boards for his constant diatribes against the football team. He posts many times each day using his alternate screen names, which by now number in the dozens. There have even been lengthy threads consisting of him basically "talking to himself." Take everything he posts for what it is, the rantings of a vehemently anti-football troll.

[Gopher+RamFan]

FCS is division 2. And that's actually being generous because I'm reality it is division 3 behind the non football 5 conferences.

Please don't go calling it division 1, which implies highest level of its sport. Villanova football is not competing at the highest level. They may beat temple, uconn and rutgers with some regularity, but those schools suck.

Him calling it Division 1 isn't implying anything, he's just being correct. You may despise it, but FCS is recognized by the NCAA as D1-AA. I'd hate for you to watch DII or DIII football.

[mpwalsh8]

In the interest of complete disclosure, the original poster has been banned from the Nova boards for his constant diatribes against the football team. He posts many times each day using his alternate screen names, which by now number in the dozens. There have even been lengthy threads consisting of him basically "talking to himself." Take everything he posts for what it is, the rantings of a vehemently anti-football troll.

That may well be true but I think Ball has a legitimate point to some extent. I was at VU from fall of '82 to spring of '86, the majority of which Villanova did not have football. The only time I can remember, and granted, it was a long time ago, there being a strong desire for football was on Parents Weekend and Homecoming. The tailgating the parking lot seemed a bit odd without a game to go to at some point but it really wasn't that big of a deal. I played on the Rugby team and both weekends were great for Rugby as we played across Lancaster Ave from the stadium and would always have a big crowd those weekends.

I remember the announcement football was returning but at a lower level. I don't remember lots of students being passionate about it nor do I recall any sort of celebration after the announcement of football returning was made. It really wasn't clear at the time what playing at a lower level really meant. I do recall the announcement including a 2-3 year start up time to recruit enough players to start a team so for anyone who was a Junior or Senior at the time, there was zero expectation of seeing a college football game at Villanova. According to Wikipedia, Villanova played five (5) games the fall of my senior year but the only one I recall was a homecoming game and I thought it was a scrimmage of some sort. I certainly don't remember it being billed as a real game but it very well could have been.

When I lived in the DC area I was big Redskins fan but somewhere in the past 15-20 years my interest in the NFL has dwindled. At best, I am a casual football fan. I simply don't have the time nor the interest to invest 3-4 hours on Saturday and/or Sunday to watch a game, or more to go to one in person.

When the future of the BigEast was really in doubt and Villanova was considering upgrading Football to FBS, I was on the fence. The thought of being left out of any sort of decent athletic conference for basketball was concerning but I felt Villanova's proposal to play games down in Chester at PPL Park (where the MLS Philadelphia Union play) was risky at best. Without easy access for students and an Alumni base which is geographically disperse, it seemed like a desperation move. In my opinion, the non-football schools breaking off and keeping the BigEast name was best possible outcome for Villanova. An invitation to the ACC based on the promise of upgrading football was then and is now, a pipe dream. However, I would have supported it if doing so was the only way to keep Villanova basketball in a viable conference.

I would support dropping football in particular if it helped:

• Renovation of the Pavilion - this really should be priority #1 for Villanova. The Pavilion opened 30 years ago. Yikes.
• Fully funded Soccer and Lacrosse teams - the BigEast could and should be a major player in both sports. Add Women's soccer to that list as well.

I think both Soccer and Lacrosse have a bright future. Both the Men's and Women's Soccer College Cup have been played here in the Raleigh area several times and they are great events. It may take 20 years but I believe soccer will become popular in the US. I can see it becoming as popular if nor more so, than hockey in my lifetime. My daughter played high level club soccer for 5+ years and having watched several hundred games over the years, I understand it and enjoy watching it on TV. I also realize in the US, I am in the minority.

It has been mentioned earlier in this thread but the concussion issue may be what ultimately slows down the football juggernaut. I suspect that too will take 15-20 years, maybe longer. It simply amazes me there is as large of an audience is there is for things like spring football and the college draft. I just can't fathom having enough free time to sit down and watch either of them.