Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[ivet]

Here is what this thread has taught me. There is an opportunity here for SLU if the Big East wants a bottom dweller. Follow me here.

1. Schedule no ooc home games.
2. Only schedule buy in away games to top 100 RPI programs.
a. Guarantee this in contract both ways. SLU won't schedule poorly and buying team guarantees top 100 RPI or they pay remaining occ teams.
b. Wins for all universities become good wins against a Big East team.
c. The occasional win is good for everyone, except the team that lost, but even then it would not hurt.
3. Tell Big East a full share isn't necessary as they will make up difference with money from buy ins.
4. Not require a single SLU game be on TV.
5. Profit!

SLU gets a profitable athletic program and the prestige of being Big East. Big East gets SLU market. If you want to watch SLU basketball you must buy tickets and you know for certain you get just 11 Big East games. If your favorite team is playing in STL you know you have to buy a ticket.

RPI only calculates 25% for wins, the remaining 75% is win percentage of opponents(50%) and opponents opponents(25%).

/S

uuhhh SLU is not going to be a member just to be the red headed step child. That's not the Big East way.

[GreatDaneAttorney]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/25139160/big-12-acc-conference-championship-game-restrictions-to-be-relaxed-by-2016
Realignment, from a football perspective, looks to be frozen in place for the foreseeable future.

Not so fast my friend ...
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/07/report-big-12-may-get-title-game-in-16-acc-to-three-divisions/related/

Yep, I think the next round of expansion is actually just around the corner. The ACC could easily move to add Cincy to round out 3 divisions of 5. The Big Ten could easily add UConn and do the same. If either conference expands, it may trigger further actions by the other conferences to keep up in the arms race. A "best of the rest" G5 conference with only 10 members is now a possibility, meaning we may see moves between the AAC/MWC. The Sun Belt suddenly doesn't need 12 teams for a CCG game, so do they dump their 11th member? Would the C-USA consider mirroring the ACC's 3 divisions?

This change in the football world may be a precursor to a change in the basketball world. Permitting double-elimination conference championships in basketball might be the next round of deregulation, and I can't even begin to imagine the downstream impacts of that.

In any event, lots of scenarios are suddenly possible, and I think many of them involve expansion.

[R Jay]

I hear Iowa Western Community College is excited about the prospects of joining the Horizon League.

[billyjack]

Three 5-team divisions is a pretty asinine idea, so it figures that the ACC is considering it.

Seriously, if they're given permission to take any 2 teams out of 15 for their CCG, then divisions aren't needed, so why would they then divide themselves into 3 parts? And in doing so, they're forced to take a 15th school before they want or need to. And in the unlikely event that Notre Dame decides to join for football, they'd then have 16 football schools.

Total Frankenstein-designed conference.

[UD FAN]

XU Dash, I know you're a smart guy and a knowledgable college basketball fan, but I'm not following your line of reasoning on this Dayton thing. Let's compare them with Creighton's credentials at the time they were considered to evaluate their resume.

Dayton (2000-15) - 6 tournament appearances
Creighton (1998-2013) - 9 tournament appearances

Advantage: Creighton although not overwhelming.

Dayton (2000-15) - 6 tournament wins, including an Elite 8
Creighton (1998-2013) - 4 tournament wins never making it out of the first weekend

Advantage: Dayton and to me the Elite 8 and the fact that their shining moments have come in their most recent and therefore most relevant appearances makes it a pretty significant advantage. Add to that the fact that Creighton had more opportunities to get wins and didn't. Add to that the fact that Dayton has had wins over big programs under 2 different coaches - West Virginia, Ohio State, Syracuse, Stanford, Providence. Those are big wins.

Dayton (1980-99) - 3 tournament appearances with 4 wins, 1 Elite 8
Creighton (1979-98) - 3 tournament. Appearances with 1 win

Advantage: Dayton. I began by looking at what Dayton has done since 2000, which created a 16 year time frame in which to view each program. When we look at the extended history of the 2 programs, going back 20 years in each case prior to their earliest tournament appearance in this 16 year window, both had fallen on hard times with just 3 tournament appearances by each. But even in a down cycle, Dayton had won more games and had gone to an Elite 8.

Although I understand your point about Dayton fans being obnoxious and overrating their program (I personally have no idea about this), I fail to see how their resume is worse than Creighton's in any significant way. In some ways, it is better. Certainly their success in the 1960's (NIT title, Final 4) combined with their more recent Elite 8's (2 in the last 30 years) makes them a more historic program. Whatever failures they have made in coaching hires is now history. The presidents and administrators responsible for those are probably long gone. Correct me if I'm wrong. But there most recent hire was a home run, which is encouraging.

Frankly the credentials of the 2 programs as candidates are very similar. It's their ability to draw big crowds to home games that is their biggest credential. Creighton is better at this, but Dayton is consistently a top 25 program in this category, which makes them exceptional in their own right. Both the Wall Street Journal and Forbes have separately ranked Dayton as one of the 25 most valuable college basketball programs in the country. That's a big deal. Financial health goes a long way toward insuring future athletic success. Dayton may not right now be a destination job, but membership in the Big East could help to change that. Even if it never changes, however, they wouldn't be unique in that regard among Big
East schools. How many jobs are there really that are immune from a coach leaving for greener pastures? Roy Williams left Kansas for North Carolina. Bill Self left Illinois for Kansas. Rick Pitino left Kentucky for the Celtics. It's the nature of the business.

I don't see how having a 2nd team in southwestern Ohio can hurt. Doubling interest in all Big East games can only help fight off the competition from Cincinnati, Ohio State, Kentucky, etc. There are plenty of examples of programs in the same market enhancing a conference's profile rather than hurting it. Begin with the 3 ACC in North Carolina's 16 mile research triangle around Raleigh. The Big East had noth BC and Providence in the Boston/Providence market of southeastern New England, a very similar situation to Cincinnati/Dayton. St. John's and Seton Hall currently share the NY/NJ market. I get the hate for Dayton, but frankly hate is the basis for almost all of the best rivalries.

+1 Flyers have additional huge assets to bring to the table as mentioned before relative to our endowment, UDRI, academic "similarities" with several NBE schools, recent purchase of hundreds of developing acres adjacent to campus and recent partnerships with GE, etc. acceptance rates/yield numbers, record number of NCAA games played at the UD Arena, elite 8 flyers women team appearance this season, unparralleld fan support both at home and away, etc. etc.

[Xudash]

Swofford going on offense?

What better way to circumvent the 4x16 model. Get another team inside the castle walls now and pivot with three divisions, outmaneuvering the Big XII - it's P5 threat - in the process.

But, as they attempt to better position themselves for the football "tournament", how does this approach hold up with their television deal?

Exciting times, I guess.

[Michael in Raleigh]

Man, if the ACC expands again just to do three unnecessary divisions, people are going to be angry.

Just do no divisions, have each school play three others every year in football, rotate five on for two years followed by five others in the following two years, and call it a day.

EDIT: BTW, I just got an ad to visit the Holy Land, Israel, on this website. Fitting, huh?!

[stever20]

It's funny, if they can drop the divisions, maybe the ACC picking up Cincy is a smart idea. Think about it, they do that, they have totally put WVU on an island permanently. 15 football/16 basketball.

Think about it- where then would the Big 12 have to expand to help WVU? Memphis? East Carolina? Those would be the only 2 realistic options and I just can't see Texas wanting to go with ECU.

Big 12 royally has misplayed their hand worse than any conference I think.

[Bill Marsh]

It's funny, if they can drop the divisions, maybe the ACC picking up Cincy is a smart idea. Think about it, they do that, they have totally put WVU on an island permanently. 15 football/16 basketball.

Think about it- where then would the Big 12 have to expand to help WVU? Memphis? East Carolina? Those would be the only 2 realistic options and I just can't see Texas wanting to go with ECU.

Big 12 royally has misplayed their hand worse than any conference I think.

15 is a bad number for football these days.

Adding Cincinnati or anyone else doesn't change the distance that West Virginia is from the other 9 members of the Big XII. the only thing that would improve their circumstances would be to add at least 5 new members so the could form a true eastern division.

[BEwannabe]

.

Big 12 royally has misplayed their hand worse than any conference I think.

My friends in ACC country, (almost to the man), hate the new ACC, so while they accomplished breaking up the Big East they hurt their own brand. Brand is everything, B1G is the poster child for branding.