Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[BEwannabe]

for the record and I don't really know the source of the Creighton is not deserving talk but it doesn't start with UD people. We had a great series with the Bluejays, they have a fine basketball tradition and solid fan base.

As far as UD is concerned, UD is a major player in Catholic higher education in USA so the Big East is naturally their interest and at some point it will come to fruition and I think it happens sooner rather than later. I just hope the Big East acts before the A10 because I believe the A10 will make more expansion moves and if successful try to push thru larger exit fees. Last go round on that front there was a big enough voting block to keep it from happening, not sure what some of the schools (UMASS,Richmond,VCU & SLU) are thinking now or what they would think if Wich St and NIowa were the adds.

[JPSchmack]

You think we need western New York? The idea that St. Bonnie can bring 2.5 million viewers to the table is silly. Georgetown doesn't bring that many viewers to FS1. Great you can be out doormat, but if we wanted a doormat who schedules worse than DePaul we would invite BU, Holy Cross, Detroit or Duquesne. Also Saint Louis would be a much Bette for for that role. The rust belt isn't where we want to expand.

Didn't say that. Those are potential customers. But I think your comment on Georgetown backs up my point on all your other options for expansion...

You're looking at "The St Louis market" like it's something the Billikens bring. Do they really bring it?
You're looking at "The Wichita market" like it's something the Shockers bring. Do they really bring it?
You're looking at "The Richmond market" like it's something the Spiders bring. Do they really bring it?
Each market has significant competition from BCS schools like Missouri, Illinois, Kansas, Kansas State; basketball teams like VCU.

Duquesne, Holy Cross, BU, Detroit? You've got Pitt, Penn State, BC, UMass, Michigan and Michigan State.

NO ONE you could expand with delivers their own market now. No one really could ever deliver their market because all those schools have bigger enrollments (aka alumni bases), and football teams.

In a footprint of 2.5 million Western New Yorkers, there's:
Niagara (MAAC), 2 NCAA bids in 45 years, 14 seed / 17-point loss to Oklahoma, 16 seed / 40-point loss to Kansas.
Canisius (MAAC), 1 NCAA bid since 1957, 0 NCAA bids since 1996.
Buffalo (MAC), 1 NCAA bid ever.
One FBS team (Buffalo, who is a .275 program all-time)


If you wanted to expand to get more NCAA bids, your options for a 12th team are:
-- having one school that's vastly different from the other 11 as the lone public school, who's nationally prominent in basketball under a head coach who's likely taking a big job soon (Wichita State / VCU)
-- schools in big markets with tons of competition and not much success with head coaches who are currently alive (SLU, DUQ, DET, BU, HC)
-- The second-best and smaller school in a middle-size market (Richmond, who rumor had it GT opposed).

None of those schools can match what the 10 of you are (Well, SLU I suppose can grow into DePaul, but I don't know if that's a good thing?)

Or you could invest in a school in a region with lots of people, that has the potential to become just like the rest of you. If you can't get one, GROW ONE.

You can call me ignorant but I'm not the one advocating St. Bonnie to the Big East.

I did no such thing, sir.

[marquette]

-- The second-best and smaller school in a middle-size market (Richmond, who rumor had it GT opposed).

My understanding was that Georgetown preferred Richmond to VCU as they are (1) similarly rigorous academic institutions [UR would likely be the 2nd best academic school in the conference] (2) less of a threat to Georgetown since they would be fairly close together (3) Georgetown was worried that VCU could admit students Georgetown couldn't due to the size of the school and the fact that it is a state school, thus giving them a leg up in recruiting.

[cm5yz6]

Or you could invest in a school in a region with lots of people, that has the potential to become just like the rest of you. If you can't get one, GROW ONE.

Well, I was rooting for your rant/campaign for a while, but now this is exhausting. Every school not in the Big East could presumably, with the help of the Big East, improve on its on-the-court shortcomings. You don't think Richmond could recruit better and start capturing its market with admission to the Big East (especially at a potentially unstable period at VCU)? SLU's recruiting and following wouldn't improve in the Big East (btw its not like the Cards or Rams - who will be in LA before too long - play that far into NCAAB season, and they have no NBA team). Any school could be grown into a better program. I'd say they would at least pick a school with superior academics if they wanted nothing but a project to grow (ie Davidson, Richmond, ... not that that is all these programs are).

[ivet]

I just hope the Big East acts before the A10 because I believe the A10 will make more expansion moves and if successful try to push thru larger exit fees. Last go round on that front there was a big enough voting block to keep it from happening, not sure what some of the schools (UMASS,Richmond,VCU & SLU) are thinking now or what they would think if Wich St and NIowa were the adds.

If that is the case, then the schools who have the best chances of getting a lifeline out of the A10 (UD, STL, VCU) are screwed anyways. But how much could they really raise it? Butler paid 2 million last time but they were able to recoup that just off the TV contract by the first year. They lost on the tourney units but hey...I don't think they lost any sleep over that.

-- The second-best and smaller school in a middle-size market (Richmond, who rumor had it GT opposed).

My understanding was that Georgetown preferred Richmond to VCU as they are (1) similarly rigorous academic institutions [UR would likely be the 2nd best academic school in the conference] (2) less of a threat to Georgetown since they would be fairly close together (3) Georgetown was worried that VCU could admit students Georgetown couldn't due to the size of the school and the fact that it is a state school, thus giving them a leg up in recruiting.

That is correct, when it came down to the 3rd member, Fr. DeGioia preferred Richmond over Creighton (Though he denied it later on). There were other factors as well including location-it was way too far west and Richmond's potential-i.e. Ridiculously Huge Endowment for a small private school.

Believe it or not, DePaul's Father H. was the one who lobbied hard for Creighton and played a big role in convincing him why Creighton should be included. I'm sure if they had gone to twelve it would have been Richmond and St. Louis, although I think the president at St. Louis was not well liked, not sure if he is still there now. They would have forced Richmond to tap into that endowment and build up their BBall program.

[NJRedman]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/25139160/big-12-acc-conference-championship-game-restrictions-to-be-relaxed-by-2016

Dennis Dodd reporting that NCAA Conference Championship game restrictions to be "relaxed" by 2016. This would mean that the Big 12 would not need 12 members to hold a conference title game, and that conferences (ACC, B1G, PAC-12, SEC) would not need divisions to determine two best teams facing off against each other. Conferences would be able to determine who gets to play in their title game based on overall records, not divisional records.

In a nutshell, the Big 12 does not need two more teams to get a championship game - meaning they will not need to poach schools from the MWC, AAC or any other conference.

Realignment, from a football perspective, looks to be frozen in place for the foreseeable future.

NJRedman, I believe your comment to me this fall was "NO WAY IN HELL" when I suggested this as a possibility. Is it getting warm where you are? Never is a long, long time.

Care to refresh my memory on what the conversation was about? Maybe post a link to the thread where we were discussing this? Also at the time who would have thunk the SEC, Pac and B1G would do the ACC and Big XII a solid.

Oh and no one likes a sore winner. I don't go rubbing it in Stevers face every time he's wrong. I had heard you mid-westerners, especially the Hossiers were nice and polite? Thats not very polite of you.

[R Jay]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/25139160/big-12-acc-conference-championship-game-restrictions-to-be-relaxed-by-2016

Dennis Dodd reporting that NCAA Conference Championship game restrictions to be "relaxed" by 2016. This would mean that the Big 12 would not need 12 members to hold a conference title game, and that conferences (ACC, B1G, PAC-12, SEC) would not need divisions to determine two best teams facing off against each other. Conferences would be able to determine who gets to play in their title game based on overall records, not divisional records.

In a nutshell, the Big 12 does not need two more teams to get a championship game - meaning they will not need to poach schools from the MWC, AAC or any other conference.

Realignment, from a football perspective, looks to be frozen in place for the foreseeable future.

NJRedman, I believe your comment to me this fall was "NO WAY IN HELL" when I suggested this as a possibility. Is it getting warm where you are? Never is a long, long time.

Care to refresh my memory on what the conversation was about? Maybe post a link to the thread where we were discussing this? Also at the time who would have thunk the SEC, Pac and B1G would do the ACC and Big XII a solid.

Oh and no one likes a sore winner. I don't go rubbing it in Stevers face every time he's wrong. I had heard you mid-westerners, especially the Hossiers were nice and polite? Thats not very polite of you.

We were discussing Big 12 expansion, particularly the Big 12 adding BYU and Cincy to get to 12.

[TBC Alum]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/25139160/big-12-acc-conference-championship-game-restrictions-to-be-relaxed-by-2016
Realignment, from a football perspective, looks to be frozen in place for the foreseeable future.

Not so fast my friend ...
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/07/report-big-12-may-get-title-game-in-16-acc-to-three-divisions/related/

“I think there’s some belief that ACC would play three divisions, have two highest ranked play in postseason,” Bowlsby told Dodd

Theoretically, three divisions would allow the ACC to create a stronger conference championship game, which would then strengthen its case for a spot in the four-team playoff.

The problem, of course, would be that the ACC currently consists of 14 members, and would likely need to add a 15th school — three divisions of five teams each — to make that setup work. Notre Dame is already a scheduling partner with the ACC, although it seems unlikely that the conference would be able to convince the school to shed its football independence and become a full-time member of the league. Other potential additions — again, if they go the three-division route — could include Cincinnati, Memphis, UCF and UConn.

That’s still a ways down the road, if it happens at all, as three divisions is simply something that’s been bandied about by the conference’s brain trust, not something that is being aggressively pursued at the moment.

[myopicraiderfan]

Here is what this thread has taught me. There is an opportunity here for SLU if the Big East wants a bottom dweller. Follow me here.

1. Schedule no ooc home games.
2. Only schedule buy in away games to top 100 RPI programs.
a. Guarantee this in contract both ways. SLU won't schedule poorly and buying team guarantees top 100 RPI or they pay remaining occ teams.
b. Wins for all universities become good wins against a Big East team.
c. The occasional win is good for everyone, except the team that lost, but even then it would not hurt.
3. Tell Big East a full share isn't necessary as they will make up difference with money from buy ins.
4. Not require a single SLU game be on TV.
5. Profit!

SLU gets a profitable athletic program and the prestige of being Big East. Big East gets SLU market. If you want to watch SLU basketball you must buy tickets and you know for certain you get just 11 Big East games. If your favorite team is playing in STL you know you have to buy a ticket.

RPI only calculates 25% for wins, the remaining 75% is win percentage of opponents(50%) and opponents opponents(25%).

/S

[gosports1]

wait a sec, nobody in western new york roots for syracuse? they are mostly Bonaventure fans?