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[stever20]

the other reason why VCU is actually better off in this transition compared to Butler is the fact that the move happened at the start of the offseason, not half way thru the offseason.

[Bill Marsh]

the other reason why VCU is actually better off in this transition compared to Butler is the fact that the move happened at the start of the offseason, not half way thru the offseason.

Help me out with this one, Stever. I'm notseeinghow this helps VCU. By leaving now, Smart opens the door to VCU kids transferring out while at the same time leaving recruits time to reconsider and reopen their recruiting if their primary reason for coming to VCU WAS smart himself - which it probably was.

In the of Stevens leaving, recruiting was put to bed and recruits were in most cases already on campus. Anyone wanting to reconsider would have to sit out. Recruiting was already finished at other schools, so most no longer had any room even if they wanted a Butler recruit. The biggest thing that hurt Butler in their first year without Stevens was the loss of Roosevelt Jones to injury, which had nothing to do with Stevens departure.

What am I missing?

[stever20]

the other reason why VCU is actually better off in this transition compared to Butler is the fact that the move happened at the start of the offseason, not half way thru the offseason.

Help me out with this one, Stever. I'm notseeinghow this helps VCU. By leaving now, Smart opens the door to VCU kids transferring out while at the same time leaving recruits time to reconsider and reopen their recruiting if their primary reason for coming to VCU WAS smart himself - which it probably was.

In the of Stevens leaving, recruiting was put to bed and recruits were in most cases already on campus. Anyone wanting to reconsider would have to sit out. Recruiting was already finished at other schools, so most no longer had any room even if they wanted a Butler recruit. The biggest thing that hurt Butler in their first year without Stevens was the loss of Roosevelt Jones to injury, which had nothing to do with Stevens departure.

What am I missing?

May be true for this years recruiting, but in terms of the 2016-17 recruiting class, having it now helps out a lot.

1 thing that I would be really curious to see is the numbers of transfers- 5th year vs non graduated ones. It seems the non graduated ones may be down a bit, knowing there is no hardship clause any longer.

[stever20]

and I would say look at the Butler 2013-14 recruits that would have been signed in November 2013(4.5 months after Stevens left).
They had 3-
Kelan Martin #26 PF
Tyler Wideman #44 PF
Jackson Davis #60 PF

Martin played all 34 games- 35.9% of the minutes. Last 5 games 31%.
Wideman played all 34 games- 26.9% of the minutes. last 5 games 15%. (all of 33 minutes in the 5 games)
Davis played in 17 games- 4.9% of the minutes. Last 5 games- 3 minutes total.

A coach coming in July is definitely way behind the 8 ball at that point. Maybe short term, what happened at Butler is better, but long term, it's a recruiting class killer for that next class. Maybe they would have only gotten those same 3 had Stevens left in April, but maybe not. So just depends on your perspective...

[DudeAnon]

If butler can get Holtmann to stay, then it's a success regardless of the circumstances leading to it. Coaching changes are a gamble, very few programs can withstand a flop. Let's just wait and see.

[Gopher+RamFan]

the other reason why VCU is actually better off in this transition compared to Butler is the fact that the move happened at the start of the offseason, not half way thru the offseason.

Help me out with this one, Stever. I'm notseeinghow this helps VCU. By leaving now, Smart opens the door to VCU kids transferring out while at the same time leaving recruits time to reconsider and reopen their recruiting if their primary reason for coming to VCU WAS smart himself - which it probably was.

In the of Stevens leaving, recruiting was put to bed and recruits were in most cases already on campus. Anyone wanting to reconsider would have to sit out. Recruiting was already finished at other schools, so most no longer had any room even if they wanted a Butler recruit. The biggest thing that hurt Butler in their first year without Stevens was the loss of Roosevelt Jones to injury, which had nothing to do with Stevens departure.

What am I missing?

As of now, no current players are thinking of leaving. Wade was the primary recruiter for this years senior and junior 4 stars. Underclassmen are familiar with Wade as well, and he's pretty good at sealing the deal.

Top 50 Commit Tevin Mack will probably re-open his recruitment, unless Wade convinces him otherwise. Top 100 Kenny Williams is from Richmond and will probably stay, he chose VCU instead of UNC and Georgetown.

Shaka Smart has never won an NCAA tournament game without Wade on staff. Wade was the first hire for both Amaker at Harvard, and Smart at VCU. He is 32, and in both years as HC at Chattanooga, he was SoCon COY. Before Wade, Chattanooga was 277th in Adj FG %, he leaves them ranked 98th in Adj FG % (VCU was 188th). Since Wade left VCU, the Rams went from the #1 offense in the A10, to 7th and 6th in the past two seasons. As many have commented this past year, VCU's offense struggled this year despite better recruits.

We'll see how he does, the new $25 million practice facility opens up in September and VCU plays at MSG (Duke, Wisconsin, Georgetown) so hopefully the program is still trending up.

[stever20]

If butler can get Holtmann to stay, then it's a success regardless of the circumstances leading to it. Coaching changes are a gamble, very few programs can withstand a flop. Let's just wait and see.

it takes 2-3 years before you can honestly say that. See what happened at SLU for example.

[admin]

If butler can get Holtmann to stay, then it's a success regardless of the circumstances leading to it. Coaching changes are a gamble, very few programs can withstand a flop. Let's just wait and see.

it takes 2-3 years before you can honestly say that. See what happened at SLU for example.

VCU lost their entire signed recruiting class for this year and a freshman is also transferring. Whether the full impact of Shaka leaving is felt this year or if it takes a couple of years, the impact is bound to be enormous.