Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[augkash]

Xudash does that mean you don't want Dayton in? Lol

[lolhoya]

Do networks care about TMA more than actual viewers? Serious question - I don't know a ton about the industry.

[Boyee]

In my humble opinion, Saint Louis University, which is basically marooned in the Atlantic 10 Conference should be the Midwestern school added if the Big East Conference expands to 12 schools as they'd give the conference a school between DePaul University in Chicago, IL and Creighton University in Omaha, NE and DePaul and Marquette were rivals of Saint Louis in their Conference USA days and the Big East should attempt to convince the University of Connecticut to drop their football program back down to Division I FCS and rejoin the Big East Conference as the Eastern school added.

[Xudash]

Xudash does that mean you don't want Dayton in? Lol

I don't want Dayton in. I have no problem stating that and I imagine my position is pretty clear about that. UD clearly isn't viewed as a team that can "move the needle" and it will lose Archie Miller to a P5 program sooner than later; perhaps a year or two at the most. UD clearly hasn't demonstrated an ability to string strong coaching hires together.

At any rate, HoosierPal provided a single metric (i.e. the Nielsen rating) without considering market size, potential or location. My point stands whether it involves UD or XYZ U.

lolhoya, they care about viewers when it's all said and done, but, in this case there is no pressure to make a decision; no decision is eminent.

Take UD out of the conversation and my overall point still stands: it's about "move the needle" programs, TV markets and program position and sustainability for generating NCAA Tournament Units. That mix will determine the list of expansion candidates, IF the Big East ever decides it's worthwhile to expand.

[jfan]

He made his point by implying that Creighton has no reason being in the BE over VCU because of our lack of tournament success. I totally disagree and don't understand the necessity of bashing a current member to make an argument about VCU. The only area that Creighton is lacking is our past tournament success. Apparently ending up in the top 25 the three years before 2015 and the huge fan support (over 17,000 per game in a 14-19 year) mean nothing. I could go on with many other reasons why Creighton was a great fit for the BE, but I suspect it wouldn't matter!

The thing is- when the decision was being made- it was in 2013. So it would have only been 2 years in the top 25 when the decision was made, with no tournament success at all. Same time, VCU was 2 years removed from the Final 4, and also had the great showing at the A10 tournament for fan support- and gotten a higher seed in the tournament that year. It's not what Creighton had meant nothing, just VCU was better in Basketball. But Creighton had the private trump card and that was that.

I don't want to make this a prolonged argument because it is not the point of the thread====but== VCU has one S16 or above run (the FF year), other than that, no other S16 . While the FF appearance is a very significant achievement, I don't think one FF appearance automatically elevated VCU as a program above Creighton from a long term perspective. For the period between 1985-2007 (fairly recent history) VCU had two tournament appearances. You seemed to intimate that Creighton did not have the BB credentials to be a BE member because of our lack of tournament success. I disagree and think you are putting too much emphasis on the one FF year for VCU. That being said, I think that we will need to consider expansion in the fairly near future. If the ratings continue to be low, FOX will demand expansion to help the ratings! Whether FOX is controlling in the choice, I don't know, but they certainly will have leverage.

[stever20]

He made his point by implying that Creighton has no reason being in the BE over VCU because of our lack of tournament success. I totally disagree and don't understand the necessity of bashing a current member to make an argument about VCU. The only area that Creighton is lacking is our past tournament success. Apparently ending up in the top 25 the three years before 2015 and the huge fan support (over 17,000 per game in a 14-19 year) mean nothing. I could go on with many other reasons why Creighton was a great fit for the BE, but I suspect it wouldn't matter!

The thing is- when the decision was being made- it was in 2013. So it would have only been 2 years in the top 25 when the decision was made, with no tournament success at all. Same time, VCU was 2 years removed from the Final 4, and also had the great showing at the A10 tournament for fan support- and gotten a higher seed in the tournament that year. It's not what Creighton had meant nothing, just VCU was better in Basketball. But Creighton had the private trump card and that was that.

I don't want to make this a prolonged argument because it is not the point of the thread====but== VCU has one S16 or above run (the FF year), other than that, no other S16 . While the FF appearance is a very significant achievement, I don't think one FF appearance automatically elevated VCU as a program above Creighton from a long term perspective. For the period between 1985-2004 (fairly recent history) VCU had one tournament appearance. You seemed to intimate that Creighton did not have the BB credentials to be a BE member because of our lack of tournament success. I disagree and think you are putting too much emphasis on the one FF year for VCU. That being said, I think that we will need to consider expansion in the fairly near future. If the ratings continue to be low, FOX will demand expansion to help the ratings! Whether FOX is controlling in the choice, I don't know, but they certainly will have leverage.

In the period starting like you said in 1985 and running thru 2013 when the decision was made- Creighton had 11 appearances and had 5 wins. VCU in the same period had 8 appearances and had 9 wins, along with the final 4. They were in a period of 5 bids in 7 years at the time of the decision. Creighton- had just come out of a period from 2008-11 with no tourney appearances.
If you go 2004-13- the 10 years prior- Creighton- 4 appearances/2 wins. VCU 6 appearances/7 wins.
So, yeah, VCU absolutely basketball wise would have gotten in vs Creighton, were it not for the public/private issue. Not only everything I have here, but also location for VCU much better than Creighton. But because VCU was public, that overrode everything.

[HoosierPal]

Xudash does that mean you don't want Dayton in? Lol

At any rate, HoosierPal provided a single metric (i.e. the Nielsen rating) without considering market size, potential or location. My point stands whether it involves UD or XYZ U.

Take UD out of the conversation and my overall point still stands: it's about "move the needle" programs, TV markets and program position and sustainability for generating NCAA Tournament Units. That mix will determine the list of expansion candidates, IF the Big East ever decides it's worthwhile to expand.

Please show your data that refutes ESPN's. Thank you.

They obviously don't move your needle, but people in Dayton watch college basketball. That might move Fox Sports needle, which would trump your needle.

And I assume that IF Dayton played Xavier, no one in Cincy would watch giving it horrible ratings, as it wouldn't be a needle mover.

[ohiohsbball]

I don't understand this whole move the needle conversation. I hate to say this but look at numbers. No one is watching the Big East on FS1. Its only been 2 years but if the BE stays at 10 and ratings don't improve is Fox going to she'll out that money in 10 years. Absolutely not. The point people are making about Dayton is people will watch. That will help at least a little. Xavier fans don't want to hear that but it's fact. Please stop talking Gonzaga and Uconn. If the BE expands those 2 schools are not options. Won't happen.

[ta111]

I don't understand this whole move the needle conversation. I hate to say this but look at numbers. No one is watching the Big East on FS1. Its only been 2 years but if the BE stays at 10 and ratings don't improve is Fox going to she'll out that money in 10 years. Absolutely not. The point people are making about Dayton is people will watch. That will help at least a little. Xavier fans don't want to hear that but it's fact. Please stop talking Gonzaga and Uconn. If the BE expands those 2 schools are not options. Won't happen.

It's more than just people watching in TV. It's also about fan base and how they travel. UD is known as one of the most fanatical fan bases in the country. That's why the first four is held at UD Arena every year. Also, ESPN loves the Flyers for the November tourneys because Dayton always brings the most fans.

[R Jay]

I don't understand this whole move the needle conversation. I hate to say this but look at numbers. No one is watching the Big East on FS1. Its only been 2 years but if the BE stays at 10 and ratings don't improve is Fox going to she'll out that money in 10 years. Absolutely not. The point people are making about Dayton is people will watch. That will help at least a little. Xavier fans don't want to hear that but it's fact. Please stop talking Gonzaga and Uconn. If the BE expands those 2 schools are not options. Won't happen.

People aren't watching FS1 in general. It's not like it's just the Big East is getting bad ratings.