Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[Bill Marsh]

Does anyone know the specific protocols that are used when and if expansion occurs? Does there need to be a unanimous decision for a school to be admitted? Can one dissenting member keep out another school? I can think of a few scenarios where certain member schools will do everything they can to keep out other schools, that is if they possess that power.

It takes a "yes" vote. by 75% of the membership to add a new member. That allows for only 2 "no" votes in the current 10 team conference for a candidate to be successful in gaining admittance.

[gosports1]

its likely there would be an informal discusion about candidaites before any official vote was cast. Once it came to a vote it would probably be an unanimous choice. (even if some members had to change their minds)

[BEwannabe]

And I'm sure by the time it gets to a vote everyone knows the result of the vote prior to the official housekeeping roll call. An expansion vote isn't going to suddenly appear in an AD's email, expansion is either running down the rails or its not.

[Butlerfan28]

The BE is in a good position and thus doesn't need to expand at the moment.

This is the point. I have read this board since it was created and this is all that is talked about. Which school would Fox up their contract for or I should say which school is worth paying 4.1 million to per year? UConn and maybe Gonzaga are really the only possibilities. VCU, WSU, SLU, and Dayton have all had great success in basketball. If this was a basketball decision they are added, but it isn't. It is a money decision between like minded schools. UConn is a no brainer, it brings prestige, dollars, and proximity. Gonzaga brings prestige and costs to every other school from larger travel budgets. VCU, WSU, SLU and Dayton would cost every other school money by causing the pie to be split more ways.

The Big East is in the same boat as the Big 12. Schools that want to come aren't able to move the needle with additional money for the conference. The conference will wait and see how the landscape changes with 4 year scholarships, payment to players, and what happens when the ACC\B12 GOR expire.

I disagree. A couple public schools would move the needle significantly for the Big East because it would help them break out of their niche. If a conference comprised entirely of small like minded institutions was such a good idea why was the Big East originally: Providence, St John's, U Conn, Syracuse, Rutgers, Seton Hall and Boston College. It was a diverse institution at the time. Gavitt understood, as does most CEO's, that diversity increases interest. People don't want to do business with entities they can't relate to. Gravitt understood this fact. Something our current Presidents and half this board don't seem to get.

Remember the U.S. is even more secular now then in the 70's so a conference of all Catholic schools ( and 1 that looks like a Catholic School) makes even less sense now than it did then. And it didn't make sense then either.

[Butlerfan28]

The problem using Davidson as a comparison- of their 13 appearances in the NCAA tourney, 7 have been since 1986 where it's an auto bid only reason they got in the tourney(with 0 wins in those 7 times) . This year was their only at large spot ever, and 1 other time where they were a 10 seed. Also, using tournaments in the '60's is a little bit of a stretch I would say, which is where 2 of their 3 elite 8's were from.

There is no basketball logic in VCU not being in the Big East. If Richmond did what VCU has done, they would be in without a question.

I think the big question is, what kind of conference does the Big East want to be? Are we a basketball conference first, and all other things second? Or are we a conference of similar institutions overall?

Maybe VCU not being picked up when we formed two years ago is a sign that the Presidents, and conference leadership, want to be the latter (honestly, all I know of VCU outside of basketball I've probably heard on this board, so I don't know if it is a 'high caliber' academic institution). Fox would probably prefer the former, but who knows how much sway they really have. I think if we primarily care about basketball, schools like VCU and WSU will dominate the discussion. If the conference wants to be about the selective schools, though, I think we get Dayton and possibly a school like Davidson or SLU.

Either way, I think UConn would be welcomed back if they want and can park football, because they can fit both plans (and if they stay for 5 years and get picked up by a P5, so what? We fill their space with whoever of SLU/UD/Dav/VCU/WSU has matured as a program. We can think of UConn as a placeholder). And when Musk gets his hyperloop up and running, and the west coast is a short hop away, Gonzaga will be in as well.

Here's the point that I think Hoya was trying to make. If Richmond had right now been to the tourney 7 times in 9 years(at the point of expansion 5 times in 7 years), with a final 4 in there, would they be in the Big East right now? I think we all pretty much know what the answer to that question is. The problem that some folks have is that people on here want to act like there are basketball reasons why VCU isn't in the Big East. Nothing could be further from the truth. There's no problem in folks saying that VCU should be in the conference because of them being Public- not at all.. But it's disingenuous to say that VCU shouldn't be in because of basketball. VCU has done more the last 40 years than Creighton had, and fit much better geographically.

And I think if UConn came today, VCU would be right with them, as the public issue would be gone.

The same could be said for Wichita State with 3 Sweet Sixteen appearances in the 2000's and a final four run. Both Wichita and VCU fit well in basketball, well in other sports, and fit well as travel partners. Their only drawback is public.

[NJRedman]

And I'm sure by the time it gets to a vote everyone knows the result of the vote prior to the official housekeeping roll call. An expansion vote isn't going to suddenly appear in an AD's email, expansion is either running down the rails or its not.

I agree, I bet it gets talked about for months and lobbying begins and everyone knows where everyone else stands on each candidate. Back room deals worked out and what not.

[XUFan09]

And I'm sure by the time it gets to a vote everyone knows the result of the vote prior to the official housekeeping roll call. An expansion vote isn't going to suddenly appear in an AD's email, expansion is either running down the rails or its not.

I agree, I bet it gets talked about for months and lobbying begins and everyone knows where everyone else stands on each candidate. Back room deals worked out and what not.

It's like how most of the time, legislators already know for the most part how the vote is going to go on a bill, and the sponsors will usually not put something up for a vote if they know it will lose, unless it serves a political purpose to have how people voted on the public record. Since these expansion votes don't end up on the public record, that condition doesn't apply.

[jfan]

It's just amazing how polarizing VCU is on here.

What will be interesting is if VCU goes out and does well with a new coach, the crutch that so many folks have used- that it was all just Shaka- would be totally and completely gone out the door. As if basketball has anything to do with it. Any one with any sense at all knows the only reason why VCU isn't in the Big East right now is the public issue. Period. Not a darn thing to do with basketball at all.

And lastly- what credentials did Creighton bring to the Big East? 3 sweet 16's when all you had to do was win 1 game? VCU had as many NCAA wins in 1 year that Creighton had from 1975 until Creighton got into the Big East. If you think pre '75 should mean something, Dayton should have gotten in then, they had 5 sweet 16's in that period, and actually made a national championship game. So what exactly are those serious credentials that Creighton brought to the Big East? Butler and Xavier- I'll totally give you- Butler with 2 title game appearances and X with all their NCAA tourney runs. But what are Creighton's credentials?

I don't understand the point of bashing Creighton 2 years after they joined the BE. They brought a lot more to the table than you listed above and they are in a position to be a strong member for years to come. Creighton is in the BE! Get over it!

[XUFan09]

It's just amazing how polarizing VCU is on here.

What will be interesting is if VCU goes out and does well with a new coach, the crutch that so many folks have used- that it was all just Shaka- would be totally and completely gone out the door. As if basketball has anything to do with it. Any one with any sense at all knows the only reason why VCU isn't in the Big East right now is the public issue. Period. Not a darn thing to do with basketball at all.

And lastly- what credentials did Creighton bring to the Big East? 3 sweet 16's when all you had to do was win 1 game? VCU had as many NCAA wins in 1 year that Creighton had from 1975 until Creighton got into the Big East. If you think pre '75 should mean something, Dayton should have gotten in then, they had 5 sweet 16's in that period, and actually made a national championship game. So what exactly are those serious credentials that Creighton brought to the Big East? Butler and Xavier- I'll totally give you- Butler with 2 title game appearances and X with all their NCAA tourney runs. But what are Creighton's credentials?

I don't understand the point of bashing Creighton 2 years after they joined the BE. They brought a lot more to the table than you listed above and they are in a position to be a strong member for years to come. Creighton is in the BE! Get over it!

He was responding to a person who was implying that VCU's exclusion was in some ways related to basketball reasons. For all the good that Creighton has done as a program, VCU has still had more success.

[jfan]

He made his point by implying that Creighton has no reason being in the BE over VCU because of our lack of tournament success. I totally disagree and don't understand the necessity of bashing a current member to make an argument about VCU. The only area that Creighton is lacking is our past tournament success. Apparently ending up in the top 25 the three years before 2015 and the huge fan support (over 17,000 per game in a 14-19 year) mean nothing. I could go on with many other reasons why Creighton was a great fit for the BE, but I suspect it wouldn't matter!