Expansion: UAB to reunite with Marquette and DePaul in NBE?

[BEwannabe]

not arguing those 1-5 markets from last weekend don't make regular appearances at or near the top of rankings, just saying it's a perfect storm for those markets with this first weekend field. UK has huge following in Cincinnati and Dayton. Ohio State has a very solid following in Dayton market as well (from memory I think Dayton was only 2nd to Columbus for National Championship viewers).

[Michael in Raleigh]

The always interesting Frank the Tank (to me, at least) gives his thoughts about conference expansion, covering leagues from the A-10, C-USA, and Horizon to the Big East, MVC, MWC, and AAC. Schools discussed include Wichita State, VCU, Dayton, Gonzaga, Saint Louis, and Richmond.

I thought this portion would be most interesting to fans of the Big East:

<I>"Big East Expansion (or lack thereof) – <b>The Big East has the ability to poach any non-FBS Division I school that it wants (which is something that not even the Big Ten or SEC can say at the FBS level).</b> Every school from the Atlantic 10, West Coast Conference, Missouri Valley Conference and any other non-FBS league would take a Big East invite immediately. From there, any Big East expansion would have a massive trickle-down effect on the conferences below them. However, the Big East is sort of in the same position as the Big 12: it really does want to expand (regardless of what their respective commissioners and other PR people might say publicly), but the issue is that there aren’t 2 glaringly obvious candidates."</I>

http://frankthetank.me/2015/03/25/uptow ... -the-line/

[stever20]

totally disagree with him in regards to St Louis. Fox would absolutely balk at us adding a program like SLU right now. The thing about SLU to me- if we were going to add them at some point in the near future, we made a huge mistake in not adding them when we started. SLU would have been able to recruit these last 2 years as a Big East program, and I dare say the drop this year wouldn't have been nearly as bad as it was as a result. Now, the question with them is going to be how long will it take for them to get their mojo back.

[Xudash]

The always interesting Frank the Tank (to me, at least) gives his thoughts about conference expansion, covering leagues from the A-10, C-USA, and Horizon to the Big East, MVC, MWC, and AAC. Schools discussed include Wichita State, VCU, Dayton, Gonzaga, Saint Louis, and Richmond.

I thought this portion would be most interesting to fans of the Big East:

<I>"Big East Expansion (or lack thereof) – <b>The Big East has the ability to poach any non-FBS Division I school that it wants (which is something that not even the Big Ten or SEC can say at the FBS level).</b> Every school from the Atlantic 10, West Coast Conference, Missouri Valley Conference and any other non-FBS league would take a Big East invite immediately. From there, any Big East expansion would have a massive trickle-down effect on the conferences below them. However, the Big East is sort of in the same position as the Big 12: it really does want to expand (regardless of what their respective commissioners and other PR people might say publicly), but the issue is that there aren’t 2 glaringly obvious candidates."</I>

http://frankthetank.me/2015/03/25/uptow ... -the-line/

Take it or leave it, because I'm only going to jump in here once about this, but it is NOT true that the Big East Presidents and AD's want to expand at this point.

The Big XII? If it's true in that conference's case, then it obviously is true for reasons having to do with football and the cluster-F they created for themselves this past season, not having a play-off and settling upon co-champs.

[Michael in Raleigh]

From the same Dry blog post:

The Big East, as noted above, is one of the most institutionally-aligned conferences outside of the Big Ten and Ivy League, where all members are private urban schools with a basketball focus. As a result, Wichita State simply isn’t a viable Big East candidate. The Atlantic-10 has some public universities, but it’s still more similar to the Big East as being private school-centric and the league may very well retrench from the Midwest if/when the Big East takes SLU.

My larger point wasn't so much about Frank's belief that there is a desire for further expansion by the presidents/commissioner, but rather the observation of the Big East's position of strength. Most conferences are a confederation of schools that are together out of convenience, or lack thereof. They are together because it's the best they can do. The Big East is together because it's members are with others that they genuinely want to be with. Sure, if they had their druthers, they may prefer to have UConn and Syracuse, maybe Pitt, bit they know those schools carry with them, from their perspective, football baggage.

I do agree that there is not a desire for expansion. The league doesn't have the incentive. It doesn't have a conference network that would allow them to capitalize on new subscriptions in new markets. It doesn't need to counter balance dead weight. It doesn't need to expand in order to have a championship football game. It doesn't need expansion for strength of schedule because the double round Robin and non-conference takes care of that. There just isn't any urgency. Saint Louis, Richmond, VCU, Dayton, etc. will be there in five years if for whatever reason the league feels compelled to expand. The only question is whether the AAC may decide to add one of those schools as a non football member, but I doubt the Big East is losing any sleep over that.

Really the Big East needs to get more viewership on FS1. Expansion won't help that.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I agree with Frank's perspective 100%. What the Big East has right now is, quite possibly, the most institutionally aligned programs in a conference in the country. Each school is private (almost all Catholic), in big cities/markets, and a clear drive and focus on basketball. Our 10 schools are a perfect fit, and the round robin scheduling in basketball is a wonderful asset that the conference controls. Although any expansion would eliminate the round robin format, the end game here is money and exposure - which will constantly push realignment into the forefront for years to come.

Regardless of where opinions lie, Dayton and Saint Louis are the two logical choices at present. They fit perfectly as institutions (both are Jesuit universities), have large markets, and both are focused on basketball. Saint Louis, with the unfortunate passing of Rick Majerus, has taken a very large step back in its efforts to remain as a top basketball program in the A-10. They would still bring a top market, but Jim Crews is on a very short leash for the future. He may only have one more year to show promise with his own guys before administration realizes it has lost the momentum that Majerus started. Dayton is currently a top basketball power in the A-10. Archie Miller is one of the top young coaches in the country. In Dayton's eyes, a Big East-invite may be the only thing that can prevent a Miller from leaving to a P5 program. The only knock against them is that Ohio is already populated by Xavier. Is there a concern about doubling up the state with another market?

I cannot see any scenario where Richmond is seriously considered. They have very little basketball success to go along with their extremely large endowment and strong market. Both similar reasons, I cannot see VCU, Wichita State or UMass being considered. While each school is committed to basketball, each school would be on an island in this conference, institutionally.

UConn is absolutely the only exception to these rules. Although I personally believe the UConn-Big East ship sailed in 2012, I believe the conference would welcome them with open arms if they made the decision to either go independent in football or join another conference as an affiliate member for football.

In the meantime, I am going to enjoy our 10 schools and root like heck for Xavier to pull out a win this week. It is absolutely amazing that they have reached 5 Sweet 16's since 2008.

[stever20]

I agree with Frank's perspective 100%. What the Big East has right now is, quite possibly, the most institutionally aligned programs in a conference in the country. Each school is private (almost all Catholic), in big cities/markets, and a clear drive and focus on basketball. Our 10 schools are a perfect fit, and the round robin scheduling in basketball is a wonderful asset that the conference controls. Although any expansion would eliminate the round robin format, the end game here is money and exposure - which will constantly push realignment into the forefront for years to come.

Regardless of where opinions lie, Dayton and Saint Louis are the two logical choices at present. They fit perfectly as institutions (both are Jesuit universities), have large markets, and both are focused on basketball. Saint Louis, with the unfortunate passing of Rick Majerus, has taken a very large step back in its efforts to remain as a top basketball program in the A-10. They would still bring a top market, but Jim Crews is on a very short leash for the future. He may only have one more year to show promise with his own guys before administration realizes it has lost the momentum that Majerus started. Dayton is currently a top basketball power in the A-10. Archie Miller is one of the top young coaches in the country. In Dayton's eyes, a Big East-invite may be the only thing that can prevent a Miller from leaving to a P5 program. The only knock against them is that Ohio is already populated by Xavier. Is there a concern about doubling up the state with another market?

I cannot see any scenario where Richmond is seriously considered. They have very little basketball success to go along with their extremely large endowment and strong market. Both similar reasons, I cannot see VCU, Wichita State or UMass being considered. While each school is committed to basketball, each school would be on an island in this conference, institutionally.

UConn is absolutely the only exception to these rules. Although I personally believe the UConn-Big East ship sailed in 2012, I believe the conference would welcome them with open arms if they made the decision to either go independent in football or join another conference as an affiliate member for football.

In the meantime, I am going to enjoy our 10 schools and root like heck for Xavier to pull out a win this week. It is absolutely amazing that they have reached 5 Sweet 16's since 2008.

I think the one big thing though if UConn comes like you said, what then becomes of VCU. They wouldn't be nearly as much on an island at that point. I would have to think that if UConn somehow came back, VCU would be the odds on favorite for #12.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I agree, Stever. I would imagine that VCU's probability of getting into the Big East is exponentially increased if UConn comes along. However, as long as UConn either does not receive an invite or turns down an invite, I'm not sure there is really a fit. Being the only public school in a Catholic-driven conference would be pretty tough.

[SJU1987]

UCONN, SMU, Memphis, VCU, Witchata State , UAB , Temple , Gonzaga and others will beg the Big East to let them in. Just be patient. The P5 can't accept every team. You'll have the P5 football conferences and a weaker football conference for the teams that didn't get into the P5. All the teams with good basketball programs will look to the Big East.
The P5 football conferences will keep the football to themselves and belong in the NCAA for all other sports. They'd be nuts to ruin March Madness .

[Bill Marsh]

From the same Dry blog post:

The Big East, as noted above, is one of the most institutionally-aligned conferences outside of the Big Ten and Ivy League, where all members are private urban schools with a basketball focus. As a result, Wichita State simply isn’t a viable Big East candidate. The Atlantic-10 has some public universities, but it’s still more similar to the Big East as being private school-centric and the league may very well retrench from the Midwest if/when the Big East takes SLU.

My larger point wasn't so much about Frank's belief that there is a desire for further expansion by the presidents/commissioner, but rather the observation of the Big East's position of strength.

I do agree that there is not a desire for expansion. The league doesn't have the incentive. It doesn't have a conference network that would allow them to capitalize on new subscriptions in new markets.

Really the Big East needs to get more viewership on FS1. Expansion won't help that.

I agree with your first point that the Big East is operating from a position of strength.

I'm not sure what you mean by "capitalize on new subscriptions in new markets." I do know that at the time the league formed, it was reported in multiple media that Fox was prepared to add money to the contract in the event of expansion. So, assuming that is still the case, at least expansion would be revenue neutral and would not hurt any one.

I agree that expansion by itself does not help with viewership other than the obvious fact that it adds more eyeballs who would likely be interested in tuning in to conference games in general. But strategic expansion with quality programs would in fact add more buzz and create more interest in general - Gonzaga and UConn are 2 obvious example of programs that would make this a higher profile conference in which there would be more interest than there is now.