Big East POY and other awards

[NJRedman]

Oh and Jay Wright wins Coach of the Year which is another head scratcher with what Holtman has done this season. Taking over last minute and making Butler a legit contender. I see a lot of folks on twitter really criticizing these choices for award winners. I'm with them, from Pointer to Arch to Wright this has been a really bad job by the coaches.

Seriously, don't talk. Jay Wright went 29-2 and DESTROYED the Big East and that is a head scratcher? Villanova arguably doesn't have a single pro on the team and they waltzed through the conference. This isn't Little League, not everybody is getting ice cream after the game. The award went to the coach who deserved it. Jay Wright gets his guys to play as a TEAM. It is F'ing pathetic how hard it is for some of you guys to recognize that.

PS- If Jay Wright had Lavin's roster LAST YEAR, you guys would have been a Sweet 16 team. TEAM.....TEAM.

Don't talk? I'm sorry but why? You think thats better than stepping THE DAY BEFORE THE FIRST PRACTICE and taking a team picked to finish SEVENTH and finish SECOND!!!

Who cares what you think he would do with Lavin's roster, no one is advocating for Lavin to be the COY so your dig is pointless. Don't be so damn sensitive when someone thinks someone else should have won an award. If you don't like dissenting views than maybe a board made up of fans of other teams isn't for you.

[redmen9194]

Holtmann got thrown into the situation and did not even get the job permanently until January. Wright is a great coach, but Holtmann was the COY. I don't know what they are saying outside NYC, but here most the media guys are thinking it should have been Holtmann.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Holtmann got thrown into the situation and did not even get the job permanently until January. Wright is a great coach, but Holtmann was the COY. I don't know what they are saying outside NYC, but here most the media guys are thinking it should have been Holtmann.

As I said I wouldn't argue if it had been Holtman. He did a great, great job. But 13 wins by double figures, win the league by four games and most agree that the talent level between Nova and any other of the top 4-5 teams is minimal. We are not talking about UK or Kansas type talent here. And Wright beat every team in conference including vs BU twice, all while being the lone "hunted" team every time they step on the floor. Against the other conference teams that will make the tourney this year Nova is 9-1. Holtman (again great job) was 5-6 vs the those other 5 teams.

Again if coaches are the ones voting and they are the ones that watch the tape and prepare for the games, don't you think they know what is good coaching and what is not. Why all the static when the team that dominated the league gets a few post season accolades?

[Milloy]

Holtmann got thrown into the situation and did not even get the job permanently until January. Wright is a great coach, but Holtmann was the COY. I don't know what they are saying outside NYC, but here most the media guys are thinking it should have been Holtmann.

As I said I wouldn't argue if it had been Holtman. He did a great, great job. [b] But 13 wins by double figures, win the league by four games and most agree that the talent level between Nova and any other of the top 4-5 teams is minimal.[/b] We are not talking about UK or Kansas type talent here. And Wright beat every team in conference including vs BU twice, all while being the lone "hunted" team every time they step on the floor. Against the other conference teams that will make the tourney this year Nova is 9-1. Holtman (again great job) was 5-6 vs the those other 5 teams.

Again if coaches are the ones voting and they are the ones that watch the tape and prepare for the games, don't you think they know what is good coaching and what is not. Why all the static when the team that dominated the league gets a few post season accolades?

So is the talent difference minimal or does Nova have 5 guys who should be 1st or 2nd team? Or does it just depend on what argument Nova fans are trying to make at that time?

[redmen9194]

The point is Nova is doing just what everyone thought they would do. The Big East has had plenty of coaches who finished in first not did not get COY. Mike Brey won it three or four years and ND never finished in first. It seems like Holtmann should have been the clear winner based upon what he had, what was predicted, the adversity that Butler went through, the uncertainty of his role for half of the season and the results. Wright has a great team that started out ranked what, #14? Butler was not even picked in the top half of the Big East let alone considered a team that would be ranked throughout the year. Nova did not have any adversity and were favored in probably every game they played. Wright's a great coach - but Nova is also a great team that we all know would have a great season. Holtmann did the best coaching job this season. As to whether the coaches know better? Not necessarily. How does Arch get POY over Hilliard? How does Pointer not get first team over Harrison when he had a better season across the board? They don't always get it right. When the Big East gets six teams in the NCAA on Sunday, thank Holtmann because he got us the sixth team in as the other five were expected to be there - Butler was not.

[FormulaX]

I liked that Dunn was chosen. Honorable mention Pointer. Jay and Holtman should of been Co-COY

[XUFan09]

Holtmann got thrown into the situation and did not even get the job permanently until January. Wright is a great coach, but Holtmann was the COY. I don't know what they are saying outside NYC, but here most the media guys are thinking it should have been Holtmann.

As I said I wouldn't argue if it had been Holtman. He did a great, great job. [b] But 13 wins by double figures, win the league by four games and most agree that the talent level between Nova and any other of the top 4-5 teams is minimal.[/b] We are not talking about UK or Kansas type talent here. And Wright beat every team in conference including vs BU twice, all while being the lone "hunted" team every time they step on the floor. Against the other conference teams that will make the tourney this year Nova is 9-1. Holtman (again great job) was 5-6 vs the those other 5 teams.

Again if coaches are the ones voting and they are the ones that watch the tape and prepare for the games, don't you think they know what is good coaching and what is not. Why all the static when the team that dominated the league gets a few post season accolades?

So is the talent difference minimal or does Nova have 5 guys who should be 1st or 2nd team? Or does it just depend on what argument Nova fans are trying to make at that time?

That was claimed by a different fan, and you can't really make one fan beholden to the opinion of another. That said, I think MackNova's claim that Villanova was underrepresented on first and second teams was ridiculous. Just as you can't go off per-game stats, you can't go off Kenpom efficiency statistics either. Each of the Villanova players was so efficient in part because of the team they played on; they made each other more efficient because as a team they were great. I would have picked Holtmann but I don't think the selection of Wright is as crazy as some are making it out to be. He put together a fantastic team that is much better than the sum of its parts. Butler is better than the sum of its parts, too, but a lot of their improved performance this season has to do with what Roosevelt Jones means to that team.

[RDinNY]

I would have selected Holtman too. But when a team lose 2 games all year, it is not unreasonable to give that coach the award. Same situation with Calipari. His team is loaded but going undefeated can't be ignored. He will win the National Coach of the Year.

[Irishdawg]

As a Butler fan, I'm obviously biased and think Holtmann should have been the COY. Jay Wright is a fantastic coach, and Villanova has a fantastic team, but to say that Villanova is similar in individual talent to the other top 4-5 teams is a bit of a stretch if you really look at Butler's roster. Here are the number of 4-5 star players that each of the top 5 teams has on their rosters.

1. Villanova - 7 (7 four star players)
2. Georgetown - 7 (5 four star players, 2 five star players)
3. Butler - 1 (1 four star player)
4. Providence - 5 (4 four star players, 1 five star player)
5. St. John's - 5 (4 four star players, 1 five star player)

So, looking at the above, the only surprise in the top 5 should have been Butler. Factoring in the circumstances in which Holtmann got the job, not to mention the majority of this roster aren't guys that he would have recruited (only the freshman could be considered his players), and of course my bias, I don't see how he doesn't get it. In the grand scheme of things, these awards don't mean a ton, and if you think the coaches (or whoever is filling out their ballot) are taking a ton of time to think and vote on these when they've got games to prep for and recruiting to do, you're nuts. This kind of stuff, especially given they can't vote for their own players is the lowest item on their priority list, as it should be.

EDIT: Also heard that Butler had the 4th biggest year to year turnaround in Big East history. Not too shabby.

With that said, best of luck to Nova and all the Big East in the ongoing conference tourney and the NCAA tournament.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Irish, I can respect your opinion. I do believe, for the most part, that Butler has done a lot with the talent they have. But that is not to say they are untalented. Just not sure your criteria makes a lot of sense.

So since K Dunham and Roosevelt J were not 4 stars as high schoolers, does that mean they are not two of the best players in the league today? Would you want to swap Jones and Dunham for Bridges (Nova 4 star redshirt) and say Kris Jenkins (4 star bench player)? Is Woods not one of the 4-5 best PF's in the league? Dunham, 2G the same? Jones? Barlow a top 5 league PG? That's a pretty solid core of talent, don't you think?