Question for Jays Fans

[GumbyDamnit!]

Looking for a little perspective from long time CU fans about the state of the program... Let me first say that I have been a consistent supporter of Creighton; thought they were/are a great addition. I had you guys finishing 7th this year and just on the outside of the bubble. But just trying to get some input into what you think this year is most attributable to:

1). Loss of D. McFranchise was going to set you back regardless.
2). Still a middle of the pack BE team that is just running into some bad luck.
3). We are seeing that a step up in class/league requires horses, and CU simply doesn't have them (as of yet).
4). Uh-oh... Hoping CU's next 5 years don't resemble DePaul's last 5.

If still in the MVC I would think you guys would prob be the 2nd best team and battling for a bid. I'm sure no one wants to go back to that but seasons like this are deflating. Any Jays fans care to offer thoughts? Really not trying to troll--truly looking to gauge the fan base as to what's going on.

[Jet915]

Let me start off by saying I don't drink blue koolaid like alot of fans on our board do. I'm a realist and I figured out ceiling this year was NIT as best but most likely would end up with a .500 record. Wins against Oklahoma and @Nebraska raised my spirits a bit but that has come crashing down. Going 0-18 or 1-17 in Big East conference play is something I never thought would happen (I figuired 7-11). This year has been a disaster. Part of it is probably the Big East being really good this year and our talent being really bad. I do think we have some good pieces. I think Hegner has great potential along with Milliken. Hanson was great last year but has regressed for one reason or another.

The big question mark most Jay fans have about Mac is his recruiting. Harrell is a top 100 recruit but is redshirting due to his lack of size so the verdict is still out on him. Gilmore, a top 150 recruit is sitting on the bench and until last game, played little or not at all. If they aren't good enough to play for THIS current year's team, what does that say about Mac's evaluation of talent? That being said, Mo Watson and Cole Huff are sitting out this year due to transferring. According to many inside the program, they are the two best players on the team. Adding them along with top 50 center Justin Patton and there is hope for the future. I figured we would be back to the NCAA's next year, adding them to an 0-18/1-17 team though might not be enough, we'll see...

[GumbyDamnit!]

I do think you have a good player in Milliken. Hoping the others can step in and get you guys back up towards the top. CU is a terrific program with a tremendous fan base.

[Omahanian]

what you think this year is most attributable to:

1). Loss of D. McFranchise was going to set you back regardless.
2). Still a middle of the pack BE team that is just running into some bad luck.
3). We are seeing that a step up in class/league requires horses, and CU simply doesn't have them (as of yet).
4). Uh-oh... Hoping CU's next 5 years don't resemble DePaul's last 5.

I would place my opinion somewhere between #3 and #4. We have been an MVC team and staff recruiting to the MVC. I think we have a very steep challenge in front of us recruiting. We are going to have to create our own market for Big East caliber talent because I don't know that we can lure it out of the traditional Big East markets on a consistent basis. At least not initially. We are the furthest west from these markets and the perception of Omaha beyond just the geographical distance I suspect will put us at a disadvantage in recruiting for some time. Like others have said we're going to have to create our own niche in places like Colorado or Texas or ??? This year's drop-off is no surprise to me. Maybe 0 and 8 so far is. I was probably expecting between 4 and 6 conference wins. But that expectation was set before I understood how much better the conference is this year.

I think this upgrade is going to take a few years. We just don't have the athleticism. I think last season our lack of athleticism wore us down to where we were a weaker team by March Madness. This year the wear and tear of the season my wear us down even more. Yes, I hate to say it but I am bracing for a possible 0 and 18. More realistically I am hoping to perhaps beat Marquette, Butler, maybe Xavier if they have a bad night at home. Maybe Seton Hall on the road if they keep playing as of the last couple games. So maybe there is still the possibility of 3 or 4 more wins this year. But we're going to have to learn to stop the turnovers to have any kind of chance. We're going to have to learn to protect the ball in the face of the long, athletic defenses we see. Oh, and we might need a little good luck too.

I love Coach Mac and everything he stands for. I hope he is the man that can get it done. I am rooting for him very strongly. I give him at least another three years. But I don't know if he can pull it off or not. We will just have to see what happens. Longer term, and I hope with Coach Mac, I think we will get the corner turned. I am a glass half empty sort of person by nature. So I while I think the turn around could be as long as 5 to 7 years away, I also am hopeful that we could see significant progress by the year after next with next year being an improvement in and of itself.

I am not down on our program or staff. This group of guys we have on our team are top notch human beings as far as I can tell and their effort has been great.

But we are in uncharted waters. I think we have the institutional commitment to see it through though.

There's my opinion, for whatever it is not worth.

[Omaha1]

Not quite #2, but hedging to #3. Jays could easily have 3 conference wins, but we lack a "closer"... guy who wills the team to a victory in the final minute. We'll be okay.

[cu blujs]

OK, since you asked . . . . Unlike many of the sky is falling crowd that populate much of our message boards, many of who have little knowledge of the history of our program, the state of the program is not in the basement and we are no where near (nor will we ever) be in the basement for years on end. We are not close to falling to #4. We are obviously not a middle of the pack team this year. I would say three is most accurate. Having the senior class we had last year, with good shooting and experienced, savy players covered up much of the athletic deficiency (comparative to other BE players) that our program had. As an MVC in the middle of the country with little national exposure, we couldn't get the caliber of player that wants to play in a big time program. Most big-time kids aren't real keen on going to Omaha to play in a mid-major. They could get that at many schools a heck of a lot closer to home. We relied on those Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and Wisconsin kids, with the occasional Texas or CA kid who didn't get a high major offer but was attracted by the chance to attend a Jesuit university in a top 10 conference.

I have seen the basement. I grew up a CU fan in the 70s, attended CU in the early 80s. I have had season tickets ever since. In the early 90s, after the loss to Seton Hall in the 2nd round of the NCAA,Tony Barone headed off for the bright lights of College Station and we hired Rick Johnson, a guy who had been an assistant coach in college for a total of three years. Before that, he had been a small town Nebraska high school coach who had one winning season in five or six years. The guy could not recruit and could not coach, and he had the personality of a wet paper towel. We went from 24-8 in Barone's final year to 9-19, 8-18 and 7-22 the next three years, finishing 6th, 8th and dead last in a MVC that was at that time about 25th in conference strength, if that. That was a program that had hit rock bottom. Administration at the time did not value college athletics and did not have the vision to understand that successful college athletics can be a significant recruiting tool for students. The quality of basketball was so bad that during one game in Johnson's final year that went to overtime, approximately half of the 2,000 or so fans that came to games in those days left at the end of regulation. At a timeout with about a minute to go and it still being a one possession game, at least half of those still there left. No one even cared who won or lost, because the basketball was so bad.

At the end of 1992, After taking our women's team to back to back WAC championships (CU women were in the WAC then) and a loss in the sweet sixteen on a buzzer beater, Bruce Rasmussen gave up coaching the women's team and became the athletic director. His first move was to bring Dana Altman from Kansas State and to provide him the resources to build the program. Early on, Dana brought in a young, wirey high flyer named Rodney Buford, a tough, savy PG named Ryan Sears out of Iowa and a man child from Wisonsin who had passed on several Big Ten offers at running back to play basketball. A few years later, he added a lanky 6'7" kid from Pella Iowa who would go on to become the best three point shooter in the NBA. Dana was able to find smart, tough basketball players who could compete successfully in the MVC and take down the occasional BCS team. Crowds started coming back to the games, a few years later, the City of Omaha decided to replace the 60 year old, run down, Civic Auditorium with a shiny new, NBA quality, 17,000 seat arena a mile east of campus. Bruce Rasmussen and Dana convinced the powers that be that that CU had to be part of that. By that time, the CU board of directors and administration (with a new President fresh from San Francisco Universtiy, who had long since learned that a succesful, high profile athletic program can have a positive impact on student recruitment at a Jesuit university), were all fully on board. Season tickets soared from 7,000 in the last years at the Civic to 10,000, then 12,000 and continued to rise to the extent that the City decided to add another 1,500 or so seats to the Arena in a multi-million dollar expansion. With each passing season, our board of directors (who by now were fully enjoying the spectre that CU basketball had become in Omaha) were committed to providing the resources necessary to building a regionally, if not nationally relevant basketball program. CU committed more resources to the recruiting budget, to the team (charter flights to many games, etc), to coaching salaries, and the like, and committed to do all it could to become a nationally relevant team. However, reality is that there is a ceiling to where you can get long term playing in the MVC. The move to the Big East was the next step in that process. The board and the administration did not take this lightly. They sought counsel from other programs (many fellow Big East schools included) and experts. They were told the process could take 3 or 4 years to develop new recruiting ties, to develop relationships with players and families and High School and AAU coaches, and to get into the program enough kids with the size and athleticism to compete in the Big East.

Greg McDermott is a top rate coach. The game plan he and his staff put together for most games are as good as anyone's and better than most. We just don't have the horses to pull it off against BE caliber players. If we were shooting even in the upper 30%s from three and maybe closer to 45% overall, this team would be in the top half of the league this year. Unfortunately, I think the energy required to compete night in and night out against physically and athletically better players has taken a toll on the shooting. Anyone who knows diddly squat about basketball can see that McDermott is a very good coach. Next year we will be a little bigger, stronger and athletic. Over the next couple of years, we should begin to see more and more athletes in the program who are closer to the rest of the league. I think when that happens, you will see us in the top half regularly. I am fully confident that Greg McDermott and his staff will get there.

So, the point is that CU did not jump into the Big East with the intention of just being happy to be there. The school is 100% committed to being successful in the Big East in every athletic program. CU also knows and understands the amount of exposure it can get through having a top men's basketball team is priceless. I saw last year where someone calculsated that Doug had brought tens of millions of dollars worth of free publicity to CU. But, that kind of exposure won't come from being a perrenial cellar dwellar. We have to be a regular top 25 type team and be competing near the top of the Big East on a regulat bases to get the most bang for our buck. Our board and administration understand that, and I am fully convinced they will invest what it takes to get there.

After all, in Omaha "We Don't Coast". (sorry that is our chamber of commerce's goofy new slogan so I thought I would throw it in)

[Jayzwin]

As a Season Ticket holder since 1984, I've seen plenty of bad basketball. This team is much better than the conference record would indicate. To answer your question, I think it's almost a 2. If the 3 point shots start falling, things change completely. The looks from 3 have been pretty good. Yeah, i was thinking we'd be something like 7 - 11 or 6 - 12 in a down year, and getting Hegner experience to lead this team to a better 15 - 16 year. We are quite a ways from that.

What can the Jays do? I still think they will win 4 or 5 more games, but it will be harder with Zierden out.

[gtmoBlue]

As a Season Ticket holder since 1984, I've seen plenty of bad basketball. This team is much better than the conference record would indicate. To answer your question, I think it's almost a 2. If the 3 point shots start falling, things change completely. The looks from 3 have been pretty good. Yeah, i was thinking we'd be something like 7 - 11 or 6 - 12 in a down year, and getting Hegner experience to lead this team to a better 15 - 16 year. We are quite a ways from that.

What can the Jays do? I still think they will win 4 or 5 more games, but it will be harder with Zierden out.

Also - Nice book cu blujs... Very good history lesson.


GumbyDamnit! wrote:
what you think this year is most attributable to:

1). Loss of D. McFranchise was going to set you back regardless.
2). Still a middle of the pack BE team that is just running into some bad luck.
3). We are seeing that a step up in class/league requires horses, and CU simply doesn't have them (as of yet).
4). Uh-oh... Hoping CU's next 5 years don't resemble DePaul's last 5.


As a big homer and the resident blue kool aid drunkard, here's my 2 cents.

I grudgingly agree with Jayzwin's assessment and post. Traditionally, and normally my predictions are on the high side of expectations and performance (aim high - if you fail to meet that mark, generally you will still have done well.). Evidently I expected far more than my guys are capable of (25-6/14-4). There is no shame in high expectations, nor in seeing/accepting the on-the-court reality. #2 seems apt and a fair assessment today. I think we still have a few W's to get and if history holds true, I am expecting a February Creighton Run. I also expect the Jays to play well and steal the trophy and automatic bid @MSG in the BET.

It ain't over 'til the fat girl sings.

As for moving forward- in August of 2015 I will once again post "outrageous, preposterous, ridiculous, and overly optimistic" predictions for the 2015-16 season - with confidence...as usual.
gtmo

[marq]

I give you guys credit for keeping things in perspective. Would you prefer more Ws? of course but one really bad season doesn't change the program. Last year people thought we were going to win the BigEast and we sucked followed by our coach leaving. And you know what? We're in a better place because of it.

I really think Creighton will be a force, just give the program time to grow up a little bit.

[HoopDreams]

We should have added Gonzaga. I worry about recruiting for CU. Omaha does not help the league in anyway in terms of national exposure and recruiting. McBuckets is a once in a lifetime recruit for a program and he was only there because of daddy.